[Puddin]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Talk is cheap though. I want to see the data to prove it. Which fuel was he referring to. Meeting one constituent doesn’t cut it.. you need to meet ALL to certify.

He was talking about e85. Now whether he has complete data to show for this type of testing I don't know but given his presence in the performance world I wouldn't bet against him. We need these big shops to start putting out this type of info because the Epa is not going to listen to us little guys especially those who choose to modify their car.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Yeah its insane just how much hate you see against ethanol. They can hate all they want to but the fact that its already blended at 10% or whatever the requirement is with gas shows that its being produced at significant enough quantities.

If we could get a major manufacture to make a ethanol optimized engine with a higher compression ratio, then I think we would see some progress on ethanol. It would also help if they made pumps that would dynamically blend any ratio you requested.

I think we would have a lot more progress today also if the 2007-2008 depression didn't happen, I think it killed off a lot of promising ICE, ethanol, and hybridization programs that were underway.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Motor Fast

If it was only about acceleration then people should just buy a Tesla. For me that's not why I buy toy cars. It also has to do with the sound which is why every toy car I own the exhaust was the first thing I changed out. I've driven many bone stock Corvette's and Camaro's and they're just okay. With headers, which make a huge difference in sound, and a good exhaust they are a thrill to play around in. Some cars don't sound all that great with a stock camshaft and dumps but headers and a good exhaust really elevate the driving experience of a car for a lot of people, but it's all personal preference. Never thought I'd see bashing of louder cars on a performance forum, much different days from LS1Tech. The performance industry is such a small percentage of the car population as a whole. If pollution was a true concern perhaps polyester, styrofoam, plastic bags, and many other materials should be the focus over modified cars. The performance world is a small group of people just trying to have fun.

I think its a huge misconception to say Teslas are so ultra, super fast accelerating. If a 6th gen SS got full traction and maybe a little lower gear ratio it would be just as fast at accelerating as a model 3 performance. A 6th gen ZL1 with full traction would be just as fast at accelerating as a model S ludacris.

I would really like to see a graph of a Tesla's output. I know they tried to lie and give like a 600 or 700 hp figure for the model s but it was more like high 500s I think because they were advertising the output of all the motors simultaneously.

That being said the power to weight ratios are pretty similar for the 6th gen Camaro and Tesla. All those points you hear repeated over and over again about full instant torque at 0 rpm is of course true, but most ICE's have 90% of full torque from a dead stop.

So this supposed reasoning that's cited every time on why electric vehicles are supposedly so much faster than ICE vehicles is extremely insignificant. They also try to deceive and cite 2000 ft lbs of torque (or whatever the number is) which sure is true, but a stock LT1 puts out 10000 ft lbs of torque from a dead stop to the wheels.

[6spdhyperblue]

Grab one from a roll and it’s not a good look for them...or a dig

[Chrome383Z]

Emotor instantaneous torque is real. I’d be concerned from a dig (at stock power level). Higher speeds they start to fall off. Not sure how they (Tesla) do once you have to make a turn...

[NA18CamaroSS]

Does anybody have dyno sheets with headers vs the stock manifolds and cat deletes (no other changes) to either support my theory or to poke holes in it?

[s346k]

17camaroSS started a thread about a year ago. i know he has dynos and most likely timeslips, as well, for evidence.

[NA18CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by s346k

17camaroSS started a thread about a year ago. i know he has dynos and most likely timeslips, as well, for evidence.

I read his stuff. His case is special though, he is running the high ram. His dyno sheet is also suspect, the tach was off by 2,000 RPM. Another thing is that he was running some kind of dumped exhaust on the car. But the evidence from his car does tend to disprove my hypothesis.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Does anyone know how many 1/4 mile passes a Tesla can get on a charge? Just curious, not ragging on it.

-Geoff

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

Yeah its insane just how much hate you see against ethanol. They can hate all they want to but the fact that its already blended at 10% or whatever the requirement is with gas shows that its being produced at significant enough quantities.

If we could get a major manufacture to make a ethanol optimized engine with a higher compression ratio, then I think we would see some progress on ethanol. It would also help if they made pumps that would dynamically blend any ratio you requested.

I think we would have a lot more progress today also if the 2007-2008 depression didn't happen, I think it killed off a lot of promising ICE, ethanol, and hybridization programs that were underway.

Yes I agree...and all one has to do is a little googling and you can find pages of info on those that have inquired about passing emissions on E without cats. Most of the info is older but some have claimed to have passed by mixing in a few gallons of E.

based on my experience and tuning knowledge with the gen 5 platform, I believe these DI engines could pass. On E78 with cat deletes, the condensation coming out the tail pipes is clear as drinking water. Not to mention the tips don't get dirty nearly as fast as they did when I had cats on 93. The black residue on exhaust tips is carbon build up. If that is not present then your exhaust is burning clean.

Also when you have cats deleted, you can disable cat light off so the engine doesn't run nearly as rich on cold start. My car actually has less exhaust smell cold start on E then my daily which is a GMC Acadia that has the 3.6 LGX.

Either way the point on my previous post was that we shouldn't be chastising members because they want to modify exhausts to make more power. We should be placing blame where the problem is...our government. The percentage of people modifying cars is probably less then 1% of all cars on the road. This EPA thing is just a bunch of BS.

[6spdhyperblue]

The timing is also puzzling as basically everything is transitioning to ev, that 1% seems to be less of an item of concern now more that ever. That 1% will diminish as they won’t be making new ones, 90% of that 1% will slowly make their way to the junk yards one way or another. The remaining 10% of that 1% will be barely driven

[Chrome383Z]

I’d say 1% is probably high. Prob more like 0.1% of cars are modded.

[NA18CamaroSS]

This guy lost power after he installed headers and deleted his primary cats. Part of it was a tuning issue. Once his tuner sorted everything out he gained 15 HP. I will call him exhibit B.

[travislambert]

Cool topic! I had the exact same thoughts about catless stock manifolds vs long tube headers. I recently had an engine built by Katech and had them run a back-to-back comparison test.

Please note this engine is an LT4 with a 2650 (@~16 psi).

Red is long tube headers
Blue is stock manifolds without cats