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Old 06-11-2021, 12:45 PM   #15
ImmDanny
 
Drives: 2021 1SS, 1969 Convertible
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 85
Figured I'd post an update to my build as I've had some issues over the last few weeks that I think I finally resolved. Solution in 3rd to last paragraph.

I was having some issue with turn on pop when using the "radio detect" feature of my amp. A lot of modern amps use the speaker level inputs to wake up the amplifier, sensing the power coming through the wires when the radio is turned on. It can be a very useful feature, as you don't have to run a remote wire, and don't have to find something to tap into that is only on when the vehicle is on. With modern cars it's becoming more difficult to find fuses or wiring to tap into to do this, since we don't replace our factory head units with aftermarket version that have a remote output wire.

However, an issue that can come with this feature is the introduction of turn on pop. Basically when the car "wakes up" when you unlock/open a door, there is a signal in the speaker wire as the radio headunit turns on as well (in our cars at least). When this happens, there is a rush of energy from everything turning on, that leads to a spike of voltage going to the speakers creating the turn on pop.

A solution to this is to delay the time until the amps turn on. There was a device called the PAC TR12 that you were able to program on a computer to delay both the turn on and turn off delay from a power source. This item is discontinued now. PAC also makes the TR7, which is still available, however it is a little more rudimentary and programming it involves tapping a specific wire to ground to set up the device. Not terribly complicated but not as simple as the TR12.

Because there are so few "remote on" options to tap into in our cars, even though there is a fuse box right next to where most of us install our amps, you can still tap into the speaker wires coming from the radio module to act as the remote on. I got a TR7, programmed a 9 second delay, and wired into the car. I tapped into a speaker input to activate the device, then ran the output wire to the "remote in" connections on both my amps.

Doing this did eliminate my turn on pop. Unfortunately it created a turn off pop, meaning when the amps powered down it created a pop noise through the speakers. I'm not entirely sure why adding the TR7 created this, I didn't test too much to figure it out, however I did some research and it seems when you add any sort of relay to a system it can potentially create turn off pop.

I thought about maybe adding a secondary TR7 in-line with the first, and program a turn off delay. The TR12 could've done this all at once, but with the TR7 you can only program it to do one action. After more research it seemed this wouldn't resolve the issue as the amps needed to turn off BEFORE the radio, so delaying the amps even further wouldn't stop the turn off pop.

Not only did I get turn off pop, but occasionally both amps would turn off while I was driving, then come back on, turn back off, rinse and repeat maybe 4-5 times then be fine again. A similar issue would happen when the car was off but the trunk was open/doors were unlocked or open. The amps would cycle on and off, creating an endless loop of turn off pops. Clearly it all had to do with the TR7, it was not the answer. Things only got worse after installing it.

At this point I continued to research other ways to activate the amps. Some say that you can tap off the fuse for the wireless charger if you have that equipped. I do not so that wouldn't work for me. The only other wire that was closest to the amps is the 12V socket in the center console, or cigarette lighter for those who still reference it as that. Fairly simple to access, there are 2 10mm bolts behind each knee pad cover, and the knee pad covers just pull straight up. Then move both seats forward and you can access 1 10mm bolt on each side near the rear of the center console, behind a little plastic cover. The center console sits under the rear seat just slightly, so it's best to remove the rear seat entirely. I was going to need to do this anyways to run the wire under the seat. Lift up from the rear of the console and you can pivot it up. The front of the console can stay touching the car. You have to feel around a little bit to unclip the connector going to the 12V socket. There isn't much slack but if you pull it enough you can get it just outside the center console and you can set the center console back down. I used a Posi-tap to tap into the purple wire. After that I just connected my lead wire, plugged the connector back in (this was a little difficult as you can't see where it goes and just have to feel around until you can snap it in). I tested with a multimeter to make sure I had continuity between the 12V socket and the end of my lead wire, then I reinstalled the center console. Ran the wire to the trunk, connected to both amps.

This seems to have fixed the issue. I returned both TR7's I bought, and now have the amps turn on via remote on from the 12V socket. Haven't had any turn on pops, turn off pops, and the amps haven't randomly shut off while driving so far. Chimes won't work until you start the car due to them being played through the amps, but if anything I see that as a bonus as I find car chimes annoying. Some people say that the speakers will stop working when you turn the car off, but I've found that the speakers still play after turning off the car, before opening the door. Once I open the door it turns off, just as it normally would. Overall things seem to be working well now, with no little annoyances. I could've just left the turn on pop, it wasn't terrible but still irked me every time I heard it when getting in my car. The turn off pop was even worse since it happened so much more, and happened with both amps rather than just the front speaker amp.

If I could do it again, I would've just tapped into something for remote on power. I already had the entire interior taken apart, so lifting up the center console would've been nothing. It's been a long time since I installed a new amp, so the speaker level turn on seemed like a good feature, but for me it created issues. Might not happen with you, as Msquared has almost the exact same setup yet he doesn't have turn on pop issues.
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2021 1SS Coupe 6MT
1969 Convertible Muncie 4-Speed
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:38 PM   #16
Zr8000
 
Drives: Chevy Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Wi
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmDanny View Post
Figured I'd post an update to my build as I've had some issues over the last few weeks that I think I finally resolved. Solution in 3rd to last paragraph.

I was having some issue with turn on pop when using the "radio detect" feature of my amp. A lot of modern amps use the speaker level inputs to wake up the amplifier, sensing the power coming through the wires when the radio is turned on. It can be a very useful feature, as you don't have to run a remote wire, and don't have to find something to tap into that is only on when the vehicle is on. With modern cars it's becoming more difficult to find fuses or wiring to tap into to do this, since we don't replace our factory head units with aftermarket version that have a remote output wire.

However, an issue that can come with this feature is the introduction of turn on pop. Basically when the car "wakes up" when you unlock/open a door, there is a signal in the speaker wire as the radio headunit turns on as well (in our cars at least). When this happens, there is a rush of energy from everything turning on, that leads to a spike of voltage going to the speakers creating the turn on pop.

A solution to this is to delay the time until the amps turn on. There was a device called the PAC TR12 that you were able to program on a computer to delay both the turn on and turn off delay from a power source. This item is discontinued now. PAC also makes the TR7, which is still available, however it is a little more rudimentary and programming it involves tapping a specific wire to ground to set up the device. Not terribly complicated but not as simple as the TR12.

Because there are so few "remote on" options to tap into in our cars, even though there is a fuse box right next to where most of us install our amps, you can still tap into the speaker wires coming from the radio module to act as the remote on. I got a TR7, programmed a 9 second delay, and wired into the car. I tapped into a speaker input to activate the device, then ran the output wire to the "remote in" connections on both my amps.

Doing this did eliminate my turn on pop. Unfortunately it created a turn off pop, meaning when the amps powered down it created a pop noise through the speakers. I'm not entirely sure why adding the TR7 created this, I didn't test too much to figure it out, however I did some research and it seems when you add any sort of relay to a system it can potentially create turn off pop.

I thought about maybe adding a secondary TR7 in-line with the first, and program a turn off delay. The TR12 could've done this all at once, but with the TR7 you can only program it to do one action. After more research it seemed this wouldn't resolve the issue as the amps needed to turn off BEFORE the radio, so delaying the amps even further wouldn't stop the turn off pop.

Not only did I get turn off pop, but occasionally both amps would turn off while I was driving, then come back on, turn back off, rinse and repeat maybe 4-5 times then be fine again. A similar issue would happen when the car was off but the trunk was open/doors were unlocked or open. The amps would cycle on and off, creating an endless loop of turn off pops. Clearly it all had to do with the TR7, it was not the answer. Things only got worse after installing it.

At this point I continued to research other ways to activate the amps. Some say that you can tap off the fuse for the wireless charger if you have that equipped. I do not so that wouldn't work for me. The only other wire that was closest to the amps is the 12V socket in the center console, or cigarette lighter for those who still reference it as that. Fairly simple to access, there are 2 10mm bolts behind each knee pad cover, and the knee pad covers just pull straight up. Then move both seats forward and you can access 1 10mm bolt on each side near the rear of the center console, behind a little plastic cover. The center console sits under the rear seat just slightly, so it's best to remove the rear seat entirely. I was going to need to do this anyways to run the wire under the seat. Lift up from the rear of the console and you can pivot it up. The front of the console can stay touching the car. You have to feel around a little bit to unclip the connector going to the 12V socket. There isn't much slack but if you pull it enough you can get it just outside the center console and you can set the center console back down. I used a Posi-tap to tap into the purple wire. After that I just connected my lead wire, plugged the connector back in (this was a little difficult as you can't see where it goes and just have to feel around until you can snap it in). I tested with a multimeter to make sure I had continuity between the 12V socket and the end of my lead wire, then I reinstalled the center console. Ran the wire to the trunk, connected to both amps.

This seems to have fixed the issue. I returned both TR7's I bought, and now have the amps turn on via remote on from the 12V socket. Haven't had any turn on pops, turn off pops, and the amps haven't randomly shut off while driving so far. Chimes won't work until you start the car due to them being played through the amps, but if anything I see that as a bonus as I find car chimes annoying. Some people say that the speakers will stop working when you turn the car off, but I've found that the speakers still play after turning off the car, before opening the door. Once I open the door it turns off, just as it normally would. Overall things seem to be working well now, with no little annoyances. I could've just left the turn on pop, it wasn't terrible but still irked me every time I heard it when getting in my car. The turn off pop was even worse since it happened so much more, and happened with both amps rather than just the front speaker amp.

If I could do it again, I would've just tapped into something for remote on power. I already had the entire interior taken apart, so lifting up the center console would've been nothing. It's been a long time since I installed a new amp, so the speaker level turn on seemed like a good feature, but for me it created issues. Might not happen with you, as Msquared has almost the exact same setup yet he doesn't have turn on pop issues.
If your line out has a “dc offset” setting use that. That will get rid of the pop. My shitty lc2i had that option to compensate for the voltage spike you have found. It then provides a remote turn on and line level out for the amp. The lc2i was like 50 or 60 bucks when I got it about a year ago.
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