[Frank237]

Originally Posted by z28pat

Say what you will about the Camaro being the overall better performer (which I think it is ) but now both mustang and challenger claim more horsepower for the money than the Camaro, 460 and 485. I am surprised that the refresh didn’t bring a small hp bump even just for marketing purposes

Where do they MARKET them? I have never seen a TV ad or billboard for our cars.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Number 3

There is some critical data missing for this conversation that we rarely see.

What are the V8 to V8 sales (SS v. GT)

Buyer age

Buyer sex

Worse news is simply that the whole segment is down. According to the data in this even the Mustang only had 75,000 sales for the year. Only a few years ago that number was 150,000. Also noted was December was the Mustang's worse month since 2014.

But with GM now selling Camaros close to the volumes of a good year of Corvette sales, something has to give.

In the past, GM has rushed models ahead to try and bolster poor sales (Malibu previous generation) but there is nothing Camaro like with camo in any spy photos. Which says anything new is more than 80 weeks away at best.

So staying away from the reason Camaro is selling poorly it's simply scary that the entire segment of "sporty coupes" from GM, Ford and Fiat are now under 200,000 units combined. That barely keeps one plant running. GM is fortunate that the Camaro shares production with the ATS/CTS. But even worse for GM? The Camaro is by far the highest selling model out LGR.

Yeah it's not good that the whole segment is down. LGR desperately needs the camaro volume.

Be interesting to see where mustang goes once the S550 is done. Rumor is its sharing platform with the next gen Explorer/Aviator whihc makes sense since I don't think Mustang could survive on it's own platform much longer.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

GM is arrogant. They thought people would beat a path to its door without any real advertising or promotional campaign. The problem starts at the top with bad management.

[Quinten_33]

Originally Posted by Frank237

Where do they MARKET them? I have never seen a TV ad or billboard for our cars.

NASCAR, IMSA, Social Media, Magazine/Website reviews/Comparisons, and in many Chevy ads that have the Camaro in the background as one of many vehicles in the ad.

And for what the other guy is saying, bumping the horsepower isn’t worth the cost for GM. The SS has 35lb-ft of torque on the GT and it weighs 75-100lbs less. 5-10 more horsepower is not going to solve any of the Camaro’s real issues.

[z28pat]

The small bump in hp may not help but you can’t be 3rd in hp out of 3. Also they need to try to sell those 2018s that have been sitting in the lots.

[detamble13]

All this without the Challenger being offered as a convertible.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Quinten_33

1 NASCAR, IMSA, SCCA, SRO, Social Media, Magazine/Website reviews/Comparisons, and in many Chevy ads that have the Camaro in the background as one of many vehicles in the ad.

2. And for what the other guy is saying, bumping the horsepower isn’t worth the cost for GM. The SS has 35lb-ft of torque on the GT and it weighs 75-100lbs less. 5-10 more horsepower is not going to solve any of the Camaro’s real issues.

1. So primarily enthusiast focused advertisement, where Camaro doesn't suffer in sales and isn't the focus for the car's business case....

2. HP sells though. Your average person doesn't really look into how a car weighs in comparison to the power (power-to-weight and how it affects overall performance). Most people look for a number on power and how it compares to other vehicles that are similar, what's 0-60, what the cost is and then how reasonable the car is to live with.

[cellsafemode]

_most_ people aren't in the market for a 2 person car that can't readily do much more than transport those 2 people and little else.

So marketing needs to identify the kind of person who in 2019, will want to buy such a car for 30+ thousand dollars when uber and suv's exist.

That kind of person is not normal. But obviously, they need to find people who already aren't committed to either the camaro or it's rivals. I dont know if those people really exist anymore. If they do, they are young and dont have 30k dollars + insurance to purchase a new camaro. They'll be purchasing old models. Would be interesting to look at registration numbers and see if the decline follows new car sale declines or if it's been holding fairly steady (older model camaro's staying on the road).

[ChaosCC]

I just hope Chevy doesn't push drastic changes in the future to try to compete with the other brands. Mild improvements are good of course, but don't screw up a good thing!

[Deakins]

Honestly, there are 2 issues that I see. First, if you are under 35 years of age in this country driving is not exciting, does not appeal to you, and neither do vehicles designed to be exciting! Think back to when we were younger and what vehicles we wanted to drive... GM and the auto industry as a whole need to invigorate the car culture if theres any chance of keeping motorsports and the car culture around. Second, and this ties into #1...what the heck is going on at GM Corporate? Ditch cars to make boring EV's? How about another reskinned CSUV? How do they expect anyone to get excited about EV's and CSUV's? Excited people part with cash...people that don't care use a phone app.. In the end we have all had our run ins with public transportation and how bad it is...and that seems to be where the automobile manufacturers want us to go except with Google owned EV's...

[AZCamaroFan]

wait... when were 'we' young? Cars in the past 20 years are a lot more exciting with a lot more performance across the board than they were from the 70 through the mid 90s.

[triggerjerk]

I thought it was the weather?

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

GM is arrogant. They thought people would beat a path to its door without any real advertising or promotional campaign. The problem starts at the top with bad management.

^^^^^^^ This is true^^^^^^^^

Sometimes they allow some pretty hideous looking vehicles to be built. Whomever gives the nod to these things should be fired. Bottom line is that the Nissan Cube sells as does the Nissan Juke so that is proof there are suckers born every day.
Chevy might confide in a large customer survey of where they think the Camaro might be improved but they apparently only listen to Bean counters and those are the people causing poor sales. Build a car attractive to the type of people who would buy it and don't charge so frikkin much money.

[oOKhanhOo]

Great to not see a bunch of Camaro on the road. Makes my SS 1LE sticks out so much more. I see a bunch of challengers, mustang comes next. Rarely see a Camaro 2016+. If I do, it’s not a SS.