[90503]

I had come to believe that Chevy/Camaro interiors would always be sub-par in order to not step on the toes of Buick and Cadillac....Don't forget we are talking about Chevys here. The pecking order must be upheld....lol..

[Road_Warrior85]

Originally Posted by Number 3

STOP! I get YOUR point. You are excusing GM from putting an interior in the Camaro that matches the price because of performance.

Please hear me. You CAN have all 3. Excusing GM for cheaping out on the interior of a $70,000 car, pickup truck or luxury car is not excusable.

I’m suggesting GM get its game in and you are defending GM because the ZL1 is awesome, which it is.

So to be even more clear, Mazda has a wonderful, near Audi interior in a $22,000 hatchback. Can’t the base Camaro at $30,000 do equally as well?

You're fighting a losing battle.
he places no value on interior features. He only values performance.
You could git the interior and put in a plywood dash wrapped in boat trailer carpet and he would still say the ZL1 is a great buy because of its performance.

He is the buyer Chevy made Camaro's for,

You are advocating for the normal people who have a certain level of expectations regarding what should come with a car at a given price.

Much like how a dealer will not give you much extra on trade in because you added underglow LEDs, a twin turbo kit, cam, intake and exhaust, because that value is subjective and may mean nothing to the next buyer who is simply looking for reliable transportation..... The fact that the Camaro can perform so well does not outweigh the $30,000 interior to somebody who expects a $70,000 car to feel like a $70,000 car on the inside

[Road_Warrior85]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

A $75k Camaro is the problem, not the interior that doesn’t match with it.

In 2002 an SLP SS Z28 was $32k. Fully loaded top of the line Camaro with the best performance from the factory at the time.

It was still behind even an entry level Corvette in terms of all around performance and luxury.

Now, the ZL1 1LE blows away anything below a C7 Z06 as far as performance is concerned. I’ve never agreed with this. I thought the 5th Gen Z28 was where they should have stopped taking the Camaro. Not because I didn’t want to see these performance numbers, I didn’t want to see the price go through the roof. Camaro. This is part of the problem.

If I understand you correctly, you would rather Camaros not perform as well, and also cost less.

So how do you balance that view with the fact that Mustangs and Challengers have upped their performance so much.

We have already seen that those two sell better because they have more routine usability (despite very similar performance levels when properly equipped). So if the Camaro performance was lower, how many fewer cars would sell? and what would even be the point of having it if people could then buy Mustangs and have better performing and more usable cars?

[Bhobbs]

It’s clear at this point GM has no clue what buyers want or they don’t care.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior85

If I understand you correctly, you would rather Camaros not perform as well, and also cost less.

So how do you balance that view with the fact that Mustangs and Challengers have upped their performance so much.

We have already seen that those two sell better because they have more routine usability (despite very similar performance levels when properly equipped). So if the Camaro performance was lower, how many fewer cars would sell? and what would even be the point of having it if people could then buy Mustangs and have better performing and more usable cars?

I guess it goes for all three cars. The kind of performance we get from Shelbys and Hellcats and ZL1s should have been reserved for the GT40, Viper, and Corvette. When Buick came out with the 1987 GNX that outperformed the base Corvette at the time, I said instead of charging a premium for the GNX make the base Corvette better than the GNX so you can make the GNX cheaper.

So now they’ve quit abiding by that unwritten rule that no GM vehicle can outperform the Corvette but they’re charging more than a Corvette for it. That’s the problem I have.

[Road_Warrior85]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

I guess it goes for all three cars. The kind of performance we get from Shelbys and Hellcats and ZL1s should have been reserved for the GT40, Viper, and Corvette. When Buick came out with the 1987 GNX that outperformed the base Corvette at the time, I said instead of charging a premium for the GNX make the base Corvette better than the GNX so you can make the GNX cheaper.

So now they’ve quit abiding by that unwritten rule that no GM vehicle can outperform the Corvette but they’re charging more than a Corvette for it. That’s the problem I have.

I get what you're saying, I just have trouble agreeing with the idea.

Not saying you're wrong, just that I dont see a reason that things shouldn't improve unless something else improves more.

Its like saying that towing and hauling capabilities shouldn't improve on pickups, because there's dually's and big rigs........ Or that you shouldnt get a pay raise for improved work performance, because people senior to you have not improved as much and you can't get paid more than them because they were their first and have a higher position than you.

Again, not trying to say that you are wrong, or disrespect your opinion... just trying to explain my view and why it is harder for me to agree with you,

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

STOP! I get YOUR point. You are excusing GM from putting an interior in the Camaro that matches the price because of performance.

Please hear me. You CAN have all 3. Excusing GM for cheaping out on the interior of a $70,000 car, pickup truck or luxury car is not excusable.

I’m suggesting GM get its game in and you are defending GM because the ZL1 is awesome, which it is.

So to be even more clear, Mazda has a wonderful, near Audi interior in a $22,000 hatchback. Can’t the base Camaro at $30,000 do equally as well?

Well then, give me an example of a car that gives me all 3 of them, using ZL1 1LE as a baseline (which lacks the interior). So basically, a brand new car with the same level of performance of ZL1 1LE, same price, and better interior. I am still waiting for you to give me an example.

Or maybe you couldn't find one because, just perhaps, it doesn't exist?

As I have said, this is a sports car. If you think Camaro interior is bad for $70k, I think you will have a heart attack when you see the interior of a Nissan GT-R.

Yeah Mazda has good interior but most of them are FWD(or FWD-based AWD) and the most powerful engine option is the 2.5T, which is a great engine for daily driving but it's not made to be a performance engine. Go back to when Mazda made real sports cars like FD RX-7. That interior is like C5 Corvette-level stuff. RWD inherently will cost more than a FWD to manufacture. And while we are at the $20k~$30k mark, go yell at Toyota and Nissan for the crappy interior on the 86 and 370Z, too. And make sure you don't leave Ford out with the Mustang. I am sure lots of their buyers are also complaining... Or are they?

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior85

You're fighting a losing battle.
he places no value on interior features. He only values performance.
You could git the interior and put in a plywood dash wrapped in boat trailer carpet and he would still say the ZL1 is a great buy because of its performance.

He is the buyer Chevy made Camaro's for,

You are advocating for the normal people who have a certain level of expectations regarding what should come with a car at a given price.

Much like how a dealer will not give you much extra on trade in because you added underglow LEDs, a twin turbo kit, cam, intake and exhaust, because that value is subjective and may mean nothing to the next buyer who is simply looking for reliable transportation..... The fact that the Camaro can perform so well does not outweigh the $30,000 interior to somebody who expects a $70,000 car to feel like a $70,000 car on the inside

Well okay I am not that minimalist. I am not ripping out the interior for weight reduction.

I say that, given what's available on the market right now, I think Camaro's interior isn't bad.

I actually place some value on interior features. The 2SS is pretty good on that front with heated/ventilated seats, blindspot monitoring, etc. What I don't mind the fact that everything is hard plastic too much. I daily drive my car, but I don't live in the car so it's whatever. And it's fun enough that I don't even notice if it's hard plastic or some exotic wood carved out of a 1000-year old tree.

Someone who cares about interior of a $70k car will not be looking at a Camaro, or any pony car, or heck, any sports car to start with. They would probably be hitting a Mercedes or Lexus dealer instead.

[ItsChristianInHD]

I hope this car lives on, it is the only GM car I would buy, Corvette is a maybe.
Although, I wish GM would understand that even with these sales its worth money. Let's say at the least, the average price of a Camaro is 31,000 and sold 29,000 cars, that's nearly a billion dollar name. Although, knowing GM, they will not care or learn from anything.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Us internet experts are your wife’s customers. Perhaps listening to us just once and showing just a *slight* bit of respect and understanding would go a long way on a two way street.

But hey your wife has all the degrees and years of experience. WTF do we know?

Lets face it...GM's marketing dept. has sucked for years. Even their "You Build It" Camaro site has been a mess that half works for years. You add something to the build and it gives you something else and the pictures look like crap.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Off the top of your head, how many people know if they still make the Malibu, or the Impala? Who knows what they look like from memory? Probably few do or can. That sucks! Terrible branding and marketing. In fact how many people recognize the vehicles by name in the commercial? You know the Vette, maybe the pickup, but the other sh!t is just a passing whim. Marketing sucks. Who here remembers when someone said Impala, Nova, Chevelle, etc...we knew exactly what they looked like and what they were. Even your grandmother knew.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It’s clear at this point GM has no clue what buyers want or they don’t care.

GM needs real leadership...there stock as of Fri is down again.

[genxer]

Yeah, tech stocks slumped this week. That's what gm wants to be.

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Well then, give me an example of a car that gives me all 3 of them, using ZL1 1LE as a baseline (which lacks the interior). So basically, a brand new car with the same level of performance of ZL1 1LE, same price, and better interior. I am still waiting for you to give me an example.

Or maybe you couldn't find one because, just perhaps, it doesn't exist?

As I have said, this is a sports car. If you think Camaro interior is bad for $70k, I think you will have a heart attack when you see the interior of a Nissan GT-R.

Yeah Mazda has good interior but most of them are FWD(or FWD-based AWD) and the most powerful engine option is the 2.5T, which is a great engine for daily driving but it's not made to be a performance engine. Go back to when Mazda made real sports cars like FD RX-7. That interior is like C5 Corvette-level stuff. RWD inherently will cost more than a FWD to manufacture. And while we are at the $20k~$30k mark, go yell at Toyota and Nissan for the crappy interior on the 86 and 370Z, too. And make sure you don't leave Ford out with the Mustang. I am sure lots of their buyers are also complaining... Or are they?



Well okay I am not that minimalist. I am not ripping out the interior for weight reduction.

I say that, given what's available on the market right now, I think Camaro's interior isn't bad.

I actually place some value on interior features. The 2SS is pretty good on that front with heated/ventilated seats, blindspot monitoring, etc. What I don't mind the fact that everything is hard plastic too much. I daily drive my car, but I don't live in the car so it's whatever. And it's fun enough that I don't even notice if it's hard plastic or some exotic wood carved out of a 1000-year old tree.

Someone who cares about interior of a $70k car will not be looking at a Camaro, or any pony car, or heck, any sports car to start with. They would probably be hitting a Mercedes or Lexus dealer instead.

I'm seconding some of your thoughts. I don't see what's so great about the Mazda 3 base interior. Also why there's trims; Camaro LS isn't a 3LT, shouldn't be trying to be a 3. What is peoples beef with the ZL1 interior, that couldn't be addressed in a model year change?

Why should someone, with a $70k trim ,give a damn if someone, with a $25-30k one, likes their own car?

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by genxer

Yeah, tech stocks slumped this week. That's what gm wants to be.

I'm seconding some of your thoughts. I don't see what's so great about the Mazda 3 base interior. Also why there's trims; Camaro LS isn't a 3LT, shouldn't be trying to be a 3. What is peoples beef with the ZL1 interior, that couldn't be addressed in a model year change?

Why should someone, with a $70k trim ,give a damn if someone, with a $25-30k one, likes their own car?

You guys thought tech stocks are bad? Wait until you check the crypto market...

Base Mazda3 interior is actually not bad for what it is, but it also comes with a 2.0 engine, and it's definitely not a performance-oriented unit.

I know what Number 3 is trying to say but I just feel like it's asking quite a lot out of $70k to get the same performance like a ZL1 1LE while you still want a luxurious interior, and remember, these cars don't usually go for MSRP.

[genxer]

What are the specific beefs with the ZL1 interior though?

I do lean toward the Camaro having to tangentially compete with the warm hatches, but definitely not emulate them.
And I don't consider myself investment savvy. Just keep tabs on some stuff.