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Old 03-19-2019, 05:08 PM   #15
302Blue
 
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Originally Posted by s346k View Post
i spoke with a guy from gm at pri about the gmpp cai. he said they saw negligible gains with the setup but the gmpp intake is capable of pulling more air than stock. i think how much of that air could be used on an otherwise stock setup is what’s in question. with other mods i see it falling in line with the other cai systems.

he was very honest about the gmpp stuff and seeings i have a 1LE he wasn’t shy in telling me i didn’t need the strut tower bar or anything else really unless i was trying to cosmetically improve it. he said he drove their swapped gbody monte on the power tour, which is cool. going on my 7th one this year, first with the 1LE.
Yup, that's basically exactly what I've read on here and everywhere else. Like I said above, I'm not really expecting a huge change or power gains. The more sensitive throttle is interesting, but probably is just a placebo-type effect with no real difference. I even read the same thing about the strut bar, that the black bar attachments on the strut towers already do exactly what a strut bar would so there is literally no point of getting one rather than just looks.

Also, this is the only mod I can really do that keeps the car looking and feeling completely stock. It's not that I just want to keep the warranty, I'm also leasing to buy so I need to ensure everything I do is either easy to reverse for the inspection or looks stock (hence buying the GM intake instead of another one).

Last edited by 302Blue; 03-22-2019 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:30 AM   #16
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302blue Nicely done. I stand corrected. If you have a lean bank code the ECU is make a 25% change in fueling and the still get a lean indication. The airflow change with the CAI is on the order 3 or 4%. The GM CAI must do bad things to the MAF air flow. I bet they designed the intake and as soon as they tested it found they had a problem. As alway GM said "we can fix this with a cal change". Makes senses to now why they need the cal change to the MAF table.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 302Blue View Post
Ah unfortunately that's just not true with the GMPP intake and the Camaros. It's not so much a tune as a recalibration to let the engine know the MAF sensor isn't messed up and is actually still reading correctly, otherwise it immediately assumes something's screwy or there's a leak. Other cars would be less stringent and more accepting of those changes. Not the Camaro.

You're right about the turbulent thing though, that is what immediately causes the CEL with this intake, like I have right now. This is due to this intake being a bit different than others as the MAF sensor is put right behind the cone filter without any air straighteners. With the turbulence being a lot worse and how strict the CEL system is, I'd say it does require a tune. Unless, that is, you worked on this intake specifically and somehow figured out how to not tune it and gotten rid of the CEL and the lean fuel trim. I mean, hell it ships with a sheet of Authorization, RPO, and VIC codes telling you to get it reprogrammed after installation. Why would they do that if it's "not needed"? Companies want to save as much money as possible, they wouldn't bother if it wasn't needed.

So yeah, technically it'll run (which if that's what you mean by "you don't need the tune" then yeah, OK), but with the CEL and lean banks A/F ratio (I can show you on my BlueDriver scanner) I want the reprogramming to tell it to adjust to the new airflow rather than flipping out about with CELs and crappy lean fuel trims.
I like your response to the post. Logic would tell you, if GM is willing to pay for the tune ($65), there must be a need for it. It could be that tune was necessary to keep the system CARB compliant or something like that...who knows for sure. However, more air through the intake means more fuel is needed. If the calibration allows that much flexibility, maybe it doesn't need a tune.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:48 AM   #18
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It may blow up, get the tune.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
I like your response to the post. Logic would tell you, if GM is willing to pay for the tune ($65), there must be a need for it. It could be that tune was necessary to keep the system CARB compliant or something like that...who knows for sure. However, more air through the intake means more fuel is needed. If the calibration allows that much flexibility, maybe it doesn't need a tune.
The check engine light will come on and it will run very rich. I put the intake on without the tune and the CEL came on before the tune the very next day.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:17 AM   #20
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The check engine light will come on and it will run very rich. I put the intake on without the tune and the CEL came on before the tune the very next day.
Strange how we get about half the folks who say that and others who don't get the CEL. The calibration must be so close stock that it executes based on infinitesimal values based on YOUR car. I'm going to test it on my new Camaro when I am able to get it home from the dealership.

Interesting, though, the one I will install has been installed on my crashed and totaled Camaro SS 1le. So, will GM give me the tune at all when it's installed on my new car???
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus View Post
The check engine light will come on and it will run very rich. I put the intake on without the tune and the CEL came on before the tune the very next day.
Yup, same happened to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
Strange how we get about half the folks who say that and others who don't get the CEL. The calibration must be so close stock that it executes based on infinitesimal values based on YOUR car. I'm going to test it on my new Camaro when I am able to get it home from the dealership.

Interesting, though, the one I will install has been installed on my crashed and totaled Camaro SS 1le. So, will GM give me the tune at all when it's installed on my new car???
Unfortunately, my understanding is that the tune/reprogramming is tied to the VIN number of the car. So if you got the programming done on your other Camaro the VIC number is already going to be tied to your old VIN and can't be transferred to a new VIN. Maybe you could get in contact with GM somehow and explain the situation though.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Walter_ View Post
302blue Nicely done. I stand corrected. If you have a lean bank code the ECU is make a 25% change in fueling and the still get a lean indication. The airflow change with the CAI is on the order 3 or 4%. The GM CAI must do bad things to the MAF air flow. I bet they designed the intake and as soon as they tested it found they had a problem. As alway GM said "we can fix this with a cal change". Makes senses to now why they need the cal change to the MAF table.
That's probably exactly what happened to be honest. Designed it and realized it messes with the MAF sensor readings, and it was cheaper to pay for a reprogramming compared to going back and redesigning it correctly.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
Strange how we get about half the folks who say that and others who don't get the CEL. The calibration must be so close stock that it executes based on infinitesimal values based on YOUR car. I'm going to test it on my new Camaro when I am able to get it home from the dealership.

Interesting, though, the one I will install has been installed on my crashed and totaled Camaro SS 1le. So, will GM give me the tune at all when it's installed on my new car???
Well I think that's because you're talking about the V8 cars and this is the V6 section....
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus View Post
Well I think that's because you're talking about the V8 cars and this is the V6 section....
If I understood correctly I think he originally had the V6 and is now getting a SS after the first one was totaled...
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:52 PM   #25
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After Tune/Calibration Update

Actual/Proven Differences:
Using the BlueDriver scanner I actually recorded the live readings on the way up to the dealership (without the calibration done) and on the way back from the dealership (with the calibration done). Obviously, the engine code goes away and the car runs normally again. Below are the links to the recordings. To summarize, you can see before the tune the car is compromising for running lean by providing up to a 40% fuel trim. Afterwards, that drops down to around 10%. For reference, you want that as close to 0% as possible (Negative % means the car is running rich and it is cutting fuel to compromise). From what I found online, most cars are -/+ 5-10% with older cars going up to around -/+ 15%. 10% may be on the high side of normal, but that is still 1/4 of what it was beforehand.

Video Links:
Before Link
After Link

Opinion/YMMV Differences:
Before the programming I mentioned that there was more of an initial hit/sensitivity in the throttle. My experience was that it eventually developed two other weird effects. The first one was that the car naturally wasn't running very well. Getting it moving (since it's manual) became annoying and taking it above ~4500rpms there was a significant loss of power/acceleration. The other effect was that it would hold revs and engine braking became basically useless. This is really obvious as whenever I threw it in neutral to come to a stop it would only drop down to 1600-1800rpms until I was completely stopped, then it would drop down to the normal engine idle speed.
After the programming, all those issues disappeared. No more jumpy throttle or weird engine crap. Unfortunately on the way home, as others have said on here, I barely noticed any difference. Mostly, it's just that it pulls a little bit harder in each gear. Maybe on a drag strip it would easier to see/prove, but on the street I really don't notice any life-changing difference. Not saying that's necessarily disappointing or a bad thing. At the end of the day that's almost exactly as I expected and it's nice to have it for more aesthetic/maintenance reasons.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:29 AM   #26
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GM says 15% reduction in flow restriction with the GMPP intake. Seems to me this would only really matter at WOT and high RPM. I would love to see a before and after dyno of bone stock and GMPP intake with tune. Seems like there should be a few extra HP in the 5-7k rpm range given the lower restriction. I do know it sounds good with the intake!
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:20 PM   #27
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where did you get your vmax tb from....I heard rumors that they went out of business....
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