[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

Trackclub, you always provide a lot of insight which I enjoy reading.

I was wondering why you don't have a ZL1 variant of the Camaro. You clearly like tracking and yet your next car will not be a ZL1 trim. It appears prefer the LS1 over the LT4. Do you have a specific reason for this?

Sorry for the hijack, it appears the OP has made his decision.

Firstly, thank you for your kind words.

Secondly, that's a good question and one i have asked myself more than once

I suppose if i were to list specific reasons...and i have several...one sums it up best: i will always remember Randy Pobst commenting on his first test of an SS 1LE at Laguna. After gushing about the car, he then wanted to offer some critique...paused searching for words and said this: "I dont own one!".

Personally, i have tried to talk myself into a ZL1, but:

1. Not at all sure that spending $30k extra on a car and 20% extra on consumables would necessarily guarantee more fun, as fun for me is corners vs straights and the SS 1LE is so superbly balanced (and fast!) in the twisties.
Maybe ZL1 is equally well balanced, but i simply dont know.

2. I already spend a sizable amount on my track hobby every year. Almost half a car's price. For me more days = more fun vs absolute pace, for sure. But:

3. If i felt an urgent need to increase my pace I'd rather take an easier (and much cheaper) way to get there: a set of Apex rims with G3Rs, or R7s. Even if it doubled my tire budget and necessitated friggin with changing wheels twice a day. $30k extra buys tons of tires

4. I am not fond of the LT4 small supercharger and various gremlins folks have been posting here, even if not that frequently. It would drive me nuts to have to mod a new car to make it track capable (as some have had to do apparently), or to camp at a dealer's service dept...(especially given LT4 cars are not mainstream per se). Incidentally, i did have a supercharged Stang at one point and it did give me much grief, so that memory doesn't help...

5. The last 3 seasons have been an absolute blast! The car surpassed my expectations at every level (incl some new PBs) and allowed me to be very competitive even against some exotics, which blows my mind (and those of being passed too

6. Lastly, i know that tons of folks (been there myself) look at various mods (incl power) to make them faster. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, depending where they are driver development wise. For me, there is no greater fun to challenge myself - as a driver - to get more out of a car. And i am still working on it!

Bottom line: I'd rather spend less on a purchase, but not have to limit my track time and trade every 3 yrs to maintain full warranty. And if i ever need more pace, i will simply bolt G3R rubber on and challenge the driver again

Cheers!

[RUQWIKR]

Excellent summary above. With my drag cars sold, I have a stash of cash that I keep coming close to buy a ZL1 1LE with. I'd keep the SS 1LE, but, I keep coming back to the reality of the amount of money for not much more performance especially considering I'm already on ZL1 1LE wheels, tires, and brakes. I may get one, but, it will be an emotional gotta have it moment vs. a logical purchase. For a buyer, good news is that the resale value sucks on these. I keep seeing more and more with between a few hundred and few thousand miles at $55K and dropping. Asking price may be a bit more, but, not transaction price.

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Firstly, thank you for your kind words.

Secondly, that's a good question and one i have asked myself more than once

I suppose if i were to list specific reasons...and i have several...one sums it up best: i will always remember Randy Pobst commenting on his first test of an SS 1LE at Laguna. After gushing about the car, he then wanted to offer some critique...paused searching for words and said this: "I dont own one!".

Personally, i have tried to talk myself into a ZL1, but:

1. Not at all sure that spending $30k extra on a car and 20% extra on consumables would necessarily guarantee more fun, as fun for me is corners vs straights and the SS 1LE is so superbly balanced (and fast!) in the twisties.
Maybe ZL1 is equally well balanced, but i simply dont know.

2. I already spend a sizable amount on my track hobby every year. Almost half a car's price. For me more days = more fun vs absolute pace, for sure. But:

3. If i felt an urgent need to increase my pace I'd rather take an easier (and much cheaper) way to get there: a set of Apex rims with G3Rs, or R7s. Even if it doubled my tire budget and necessitated friggin with changing wheels twice a day. $30k extra buys tons of tires

4. I am not fond of the LT4 small supercharger and various gremlins folks have been posting here, even if not that frequently. It would drive me nuts to have to mod a new car to make it track capable (as some have had to do apparently), or to camp at a dealer's service dept...(especially given LT4 cars are not mainstream per se). Incidentally, i did have a supercharged Stang at one point and it did give me much grief, so that memory doesn't help...

5. The last 3 seasons have been an absolute blast! The car surpassed my expectations at every level (incl some new PBs) and allowed me to be very competitive even against some exotics, which blows my mind (and those of being passed too

6. Lastly, i know that tons of folks (been there myself) look at various mods (incl power) to make them faster. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, depending where they are driver development wise. For me, there is no greater fun to challenge myself - as a driver - to get more out of a car. And i am still working on it!

Bottom line: I'd rather spend less on a purchase, but not have to limit my track time and trade every 3 yrs to maintain full warranty. And if i ever need more pace, i will simply bolt G3R rubber on and challenge the driver again

Cheers!

So kind of having this debate with myself right now. Wife is baulking at the $62k price tag for a zl1 1le and had not considered the as until reading some of the info here. Have not driven one yet. The ZLE just made me smile. I am looking at it as a starter car on get into the track days here in Florida as well.

Is the SS that good?

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by BanOne

So kind of having this debate with myself right now. Wife is baulking at the $62k price tag for a zl1 1le and had not considered the as until reading some of the info here. Have not driven one yet. The ZLE just made me smile. I am looking at it as a starter car on get into the track days here in Florida as well.

Is the SS that good?

Of course the SS 1LE is that good It is an amazing package right out of the box on a track, yet very civilized as a DD car as well.

Of course, ZL1 1LE is faster, but with a skilled driver, who knows how to get the speed out of its sticky tires, more power and aero. You'll also pay for new tires every 3 vs 6 or 7 track days, pay more for gas, brakes, etc. So, your consumables costs will be much higher.

But, money aside, I would not recommend it as a first track car to anyone, as it is more difficult to learn on a faster car vs not. That applies to anyone no matter how "talented" they may think they are (and almost always peeps have no idea whatsoever how much learning and skill it takes to pilot a car to go really fast). It takes many track days (plus instruction and studying) to learn how to feel a car's limit, make corrections when those get exceeded to prevent spin outs or wrecks, etc. And quite simply the higher the car's limits and the higher the speeds, the more difficult and longer the journey.

That's assuming one is serious about the track hobby with a primary objective of becoming a fast driver.
If the objective is to have an uber car with big wing etc and take it to a track from time to time and brag to friends about "racing" it, that's ok too. Fun is fun! But that's a different path and results will be very different as well. Cheers!

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Firstly, thank you for your kind words.

Secondly, that's a good question and one i have asked myself more than once

I suppose if i were to list specific reasons...and i have several...one sums it up best: i will always remember Randy Pobst commenting on his first test of an SS 1LE at Laguna. After gushing about the car, he then wanted to offer some critique...paused searching for words and said this: "I dont own one!".

Personally, i have tried to talk myself into a ZL1, but:

1. Not at all sure that spending $30k extra on a car and 20% extra on consumables would necessarily guarantee more fun, as fun for me is corners vs straights and the SS 1LE is so superbly balanced (and fast!) in the twisties.
Maybe ZL1 is equally well balanced, but i simply dont know.

2. I already spend a sizable amount on my track hobby every year. Almost half a car's price. For me more days = more fun vs absolute pace, for sure. But:

3. If i felt an urgent need to increase my pace I'd rather take an easier (and much cheaper) way to get there: a set of Apex rims with G3Rs, or R7s. Even if it doubled my tire budget and necessitated friggin with changing wheels twice a day. $30k extra buys tons of tires

4. I am not fond of the LT4 small supercharger and various gremlins folks have been posting here, even if not that frequently. It would drive me nuts to have to mod a new car to make it track capable (as some have had to do apparently), or to camp at a dealer's service dept...(especially given LT4 cars are not mainstream per se). Incidentally, i did have a supercharged Stang at one point and it did give me much grief, so that memory doesn't help...

5. The last 3 seasons have been an absolute blast! The car surpassed my expectations at every level (incl some new PBs) and allowed me to be very competitive even against some exotics, which blows my mind (and those of being passed too

6. Lastly, i know that tons of folks (been there myself) look at various mods (incl power) to make them faster. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, depending where they are driver development wise. For me, there is no greater fun to challenge myself - as a driver - to get more out of a car. And i am still working on it!

Bottom line: I'd rather spend less on a purchase, but not have to limit my track time and trade every 3 yrs to maintain full warranty. And if i ever need more pace, i will simply bolt G3R rubber on and challenge the driver again

Cheers!

Thanks for the fine points. As much as I want the top option for the Camaro, and it is such a performance bargain. When I am driving my 1LE I don't see where I will use the extra power. The last time I went canyon carving, the car gets up to speed before you know it. It is more about control and balance on a mountain road. Also as much as I hate to admit it, the 1LE spends more time in the garage than on the road. The extra $30K is a lot of money just to gather dust in the garage.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by GermanMuscle

I think I will be going black.

The one downside is that it is only clean for a minute or two after you wash it. One short drive leaves it covered in dust.
I love/hate it.

Looks really mean, but all I see is the dirt that needs to be cleaned off.

[GermanMuscle]

UPDATE: Pulled the trigger on a 2019 1SS 1LE in Black today! Will pick it up Wednesday (hopefully Tuesday). Car has a PDR and I got it for $43,300 out the door (tax, title, fees included) and I live in FL where there are no limits on dealer fees. IMO a very good deal, I am happy with it.

First of: Thanks for everyones input!

Now let me explain what my thoughts were in a little more detail.

I drive up to the dealership and there is a beautiful white C7 GS with black rims sitting infront. Next to it stands a white SS 1LE and all I could think was damn am I making the right choice with the 1LE that GS looks amazing? So here I am looking at a 1LE and a GS side by side and yes the GS looks more special, it becomes very evident when you see them side by side. But then I remember the price difference and immediately the 1LE becomes more appealing again. I take the 1LE for a quick spin! What... a... car...! I drove a 2019 GS about two weeks ago and the 1LE is so much more emotional in my eyes. The crackling the exhaust makes on the 1LE is just , I can't recall the 2019 GS that I drove making that kind of sounds. As far as suspension feel and handling they felt very similar, but the GS felt a little bit more planted with a lower center of gravity (I am judging this from driving around the block with both cars, so take it with a grain of salt). For the price difference the 1LE is a no brainer. I was also surprised how different the 1LE is from a regular SS. I had a 2016 SS Manual earlier this year and did not think that these cars (SS vs. SS 1LE) would be so different (part of it might come from the fact that I drive a 2.0T Sedan as my DD and forgot how the 2016 SS rides). The handling, grip and exhaust is so much better on the 1LE vs. SS!


Super happy with my decision and the deal I got.

[TrackClub]

Congratulations!!!
Do post some pix when you get a chance pls.
Cheers!

[Scottyz]

Originally Posted by GermanMuscle

UPDATE: Pulled the trigger on a 2019 1SS 1LE in Black today! Will pick it up Wednesday (hopefully Tuesday). Car has a PDR and I got it for $43,300 out the door (tax, title, fees included) and I live in FL where there are no limits on dealer fees. IMO a very good deal, I am happy with it.

First of: Thanks for everyones input!

Now let me explain what my thoughts were in a little more detail.

I drive up to the dealership and there is a beautiful white C7 GS with black rims sitting infront. Next to it stands a white SS 1LE and all I could think was damn am I making the right choice with the 1LE that GS looks amazing? So here I am looking at a 1LE and a GS side by side and yes the GS looks more special, it becomes very evident when you see them side by side. But then I remember the price difference and immediately the 1LE becomes more appealing again. I take the 1LE for a quick spin! What... a... car...! I drove a 2019 GS about two weeks ago and the 1LE is so much more emotional in my eyes. The crackling the exhaust makes on the 1LE is just , I can't recall the 2019 GS that I drove making that kind of sounds. As far as suspension feel and handling they felt very similar, but the GS felt a little bit more planted with a lower center of gravity (I am judging this from driving around the block with both cars, so take it with a grain of salt). For the price difference the 1LE is a no brainer. I was also surprised how different the 1LE is from a regular SS. I had a 2016 SS Manual earlier this year and did not think that these cars (SS vs. SS 1LE) would be so different (part of it might come from the fact that I drive a 2.0T Sedan as my DD and forgot how the 2016 SS rides). The handling, grip and exhaust is so much better on the 1LE vs. SS!


Super happy with my decision and the deal I got.

Awesome👍. Good for you and congratulations.

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Of course the SS 1LE is that good It is an amazing package right out of the box on a track, yet very civilized as a DD car as well.

Of course, ZL1 1LE is faster, but with a skilled driver, who knows how to get the speed out of its sticky tires, more power and aero. You'll also pay for new tires every 3 vs 6 or 7 track days, pay more for gas, brakes, etc. So, your consumables costs will be much higher.

But, money aside, I would not recommend it as a first track car to anyone, as it is more difficult to learn on a faster car vs not. That applies to anyone no matter how "talented" they may think they are (and almost always peeps have no idea whatsoever how much learning and skill it takes to pilot a car to go really fast). It takes many track days (plus instruction and studying) to learn how to feel a car's limit, make corrections when those get exceeded to prevent spin outs or wrecks, etc. And quite simply the higher the car's limits and the higher the speeds, the more difficult and longer the journey.

That's assuming one is serious about the track hobby with a primary objective of becoming a fast driver.
If the objective is to have an uber car with big wing etc and take it to a track from time to time and brag to friends about "racing" it, that's ok too. Fun is fun! But that's a different path and results will be very different as well. Cheers!

Thanks for the input

[Aragorn]

Congrats!

[OVRKLL]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

The one downside is that it is only clean for a minute or two after you wash it. One short drive leaves it covered in dust.
I love/hate it.

Looks really mean, but all I see is the dirt that needs to be cleaned off.

And finger prints...need to push on the rubber window strip to close the door!

To the OP...Congrats & enjoy the ride!

WARNING: Beware of the MOD Gods...they're everywhere!

[irmb]

Originally Posted by GermanMuscle

Hi Everyone,

I’m in the market for a new fun car. I’m torn between a new 2019 Camaro SS 1LE and a slightly used C7 GrandSport with about 5000 miles on it. The price difference is about $12k.
I’d like some opinions on what your thoughts are on the two cars. Although I have test driven both hopefully someone can shed some light on the differences when you push these cars to the limit?

I’m just not sure if the extra $10k-$15k for the GS is worth it? The money I would save on the 1LE could be used for some serious mods and blow a GS away in a straight line and possibly even on the track.

On the other hand I’m worried that, if I get the 1LE I will regret not getting the Chevy “flagship” a couple months down the road. I’m also thinking that a Manual C7 GS will hold its value better, since it will be the last generation Corvette with a Manual.

Decisions, decisions, decisions... does anyone have any advice?

Both are absolutely great cars.

I've owned a 6th gen camaro and c7 GS and am now going back to the camaro.

I'm tall. The camaro has just slightly more head room.

The interior on the 2ss is nicer than the mid-level corvette. Corvette uses seemingly cheaper materials. The corvette info-tainment center has a very wonky UI and the controls are not as ergonomic - making you looking down to change music on the corvette - while on the camaro you can easily feel your way around.

The camaro is slightly wider - so at 6'3" 220#'s I fit better.

The camaro is safer. Corvettes are not crash tested and have no crash test rating. Camaro's OTOH have been tested and have done quite well.

The use the same engine. But the stick in the camaro is easier - having 1 less gear. it's super common on c7's for people to miss shifts now and again.

I know the camaro 1LE will be about 1.5 seconds slower around the track - but at some point we all make comprimises. I think the camaro is a good one.

[GermanMuscle]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Congratulations!!!
Do post some pix when you get a chance pls.
Cheers!

Sorry for the delay, delivery took longer than expected but here she is!