01-28-2019, 08:07 PM | #1 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 11
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Running too rich after tune?
Hey everyone,
So I recently got my car dyno tuned and I was kind of disappointed. My car made 433 whp and 451 torque so I posted it on Facebook to get some opinions on why I ran such low numbers. I was repeatedly told my car was running too rich. I went back and talked to my tuner and he said he tried to go the lean route but my car would pull timing, as much as 6 degrees. I'm currently unsure of what to do and I was told running rich on these DI motors are not safe, it is safer to run lean. What are your opinions? My mods are: TSP headers 1-7/8 inch Rotofab Intake (dry filter) Mishimoto catch can Flex Fuel Sensor (at the time of tune I had 58% ethanol) |
01-28-2019, 10:48 PM | #2 |
Drives: 2017 1SS/1LE Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: FL Panhandle
Posts: 1,559
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First, you can only call them "low" if you have a baseline from YOUR car on the same dyno. All dyno reads will vary, and your gains should be all relative to YOUR baseline dyno. Otherwise, you can NOT compare this dyno to that dyno. If your tuner is experienced with DI engines, then I wouldn't worry.
Does the car fell more powerful to your butt dyno? If so, don't worry about what every other FB/keyboard warrior says. Most have no idea what they're talking about. |
01-29-2019, 06:49 AM | #3 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 11
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Quote:
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01-30-2019, 03:12 AM | #4 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS, Hyper Blue Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Next Level Tuning - Chicago
Posts: 186
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That's a 12afr-11.8afr which is way rich for a stock LT1. I posted on your fb question and you need it tuned again at the correct afr. I'm 9psi at 12-12.2afr and zero knock retard.
If you're local to Chicago, I can get you dialed in no problem. I can also remote login if your tuner is having issues. Put the timing back in that they took out, lean it out, and watch the knock go away......
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2018 2SS, A8, NAV, NPP, MRC, Sunroof, Hyperblue, LT4 S/C, LT4 Fuel System, RotoFab CAI, Headers, HiFlo Cats
2016 2SS, A8, NAV, NPP, MRC, Sunroof, Hyperblue (GM buyback) 1999 Trans Am Firehawk, M6, headers, no-cats, slp exhaust, hot cam, intake, 3:73 gears. Red/Blk |
01-30-2019, 07:52 AM | #5 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 384
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AFR is only 1 of a dozen things.... and will not tell you the whole story nor change HP much in the big picture. Find a better tuner.
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01-30-2019, 08:45 AM | #6 |
@Blackmamba_1LE
Drives: 2017 1LE Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: South Florida
Posts: 740
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Sorry to say, but you need a new tuner if he just gave up on correcting fuel mixture...
Also you have a 1LE, people don't take into consideration that we have ZL1 in tank fuel pumps.... When I tuned... Pray also had the same issue, but he figured it out with my car on a dyno and remotely tuned. That was about 2 years ago which im probably sure i was 1 of the first 1LE's he had tuned but he never quit till the car was right. Its that simple. That being said, a baseline is very important... because gains will tell you better if you are on par with the avg hp gains... the peak HP is just a number based on dyno calibrations... but looking at your graph you are leaving at least 15hp on the table.
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OG: Pray Perf FBO ET:11.5 @119 THEN:LT4 SC, E85 + Meth :10.6 @135 NOW: H/C Whipple 416ci
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01-31-2019, 06:25 AM | #7 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NH
Posts: 1,692
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As previously mentioned, the numbers themselves mean nothing unless you have the baseline numbers from the same dyno.
That said, something looks wrong with your tune. The big drop off after 5600rpm is very strange, it should pull to a higher rpm than that, and then have a gentle fall off. The AFR shown on the sheet, if it's based on lambda like usual for an oxygen sensor, also looks rich for a normally-aspirated LT1. Looks around .78, and somwhere around .86 to .88 is probably better for this engine. The AFR is fairly steady so there are other problems besides this going on here (not a rich spot corresponding to the strange dip in power). |
01-31-2019, 07:02 AM | #8 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 11
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The AFR is 11.31 at 433 whp. I’m thinking of going to vengeance racing, Pray porting or lsxperts. Just don’t know who yet and waiting for their responses. Just sucks that I pretty much wasted a lot of money trusting the guy.
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01-31-2019, 10:23 AM | #9 | |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 154
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Quote:
- Turn off COT Protection (if you don't have cats) - Increase knock sensor sensitivity threshold (mine are at 5) - Lean your PE AFR's (target 12.8-13 for gas, 8.5 for E85) Otherwise, find a new tuner who can do this for you... |
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01-31-2019, 11:35 AM | #10 |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,797
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RPM just did a experiment with a NA Corvette. Fran did 3 pulls back to back. One @ 12.8 afr, 11.5 afr, and 13.5 afr. Guess what, they were all within 5whp of each other on a 400-430whp car. The AFR isn't costing you power but the timing is. The LT1 knock sensor sensitivity is way too sensitive because GM set the engines up with the ability to run on 87. So that combined with high compression is why they pull timing very easy. You need to find a competent tuner that knows how to tune these DI engines correctly.
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
02-11-2019, 11:04 AM | #11 | |
Drives: BLUE CAMARO ZL1 1LE M6 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 15,224
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Quote:
Should be around 460 RWHP on E58 but dynos vary so you must first find out what stock camaros show on this dyno so you know the real gains. Ted.
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Celebrating 37 years Performance parts, Installation, Fabrication, Dyno tuning, Remote custom tuning, and alignments. 203-753-7223 Waterbury CT. 06705 email tedj@jannettyracing.com |
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02-11-2019, 11:28 AM | #12 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Bartlett, TN
Posts: 1,121
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Don't know my AFR but my dyno numbers are almost identical to yours with the same mods and the tune was done by a very reputable tuner in my city. Go to the track and see what it runs and forget about dyno numbers.
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11-09-2019, 09:39 AM | #13 |
Black lightning
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Damn every good tuner on Md claims 430-440 tops with these mods. You all have high #s okay not every lol but the two GOOD ONES I've used. I think one was an inground older mustang dyno and one a newer mustang dynojet
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