[glamcem]

I had a chance to compare the OEM tires to Trofeo Rs at the ORP this past Saturday (4/29/17) and wanted to share my experience between the two:

COLD PSIs: 28 PSI for both setup

First of all, I have to mention that these are the best OEM tires I've ever had and I highly doubt if they're much different than the RE71R tires I had on my S2000 in terms of the grip level, time required to reach the target PSIs (or ideal temps) and consistency. They obviously did a great job for creating a dual purpose tire for both track and road. It also let me drive back home safely from the mountain passes and heavy rainstorm on the way back.

Another thing to mention is that weight and overall diameter of the two setups are not identical so there's still a margin of error if we don't take that into a consideration. OEM tire/wheel combo weighs about 7 and 8 lbs more than the Trofeo R track setup. Also Trofeo R wheel/tire combo is about 3% shorter than the OEM which makes the gear ratios a bit shorter (about 3.85-3.90 vs 3.73 stock) which is also beneficial at the track.

To compensate some of the advantages of the track setup, I decided to run the OEM setup in the morning sessions with a bit cooler ambient temps (high 40s vs mid to high 50s afternoon)

I did my personal best lap in the morning with the OEM setup and improved my previous best lap by almost 3 seconds at 1:55.8 (Rotrex Build BRZ with Z214s all around). After I put the Trofeo Rs I was able to shave additional 1.1 seconds and did 1:54.7. I could only do one session with the Trofeo Rs though so I should be able to do a bit better than that.

After a careful analysis, I noticed that I can try a bit different lines and gears for certain corners and so that I could improve it.

Other important thing to mention, in order to compensate the Front and Rear balance with the Trofeo Rs (305s square setup vs 285/305) due to amount of front grip, I decided to add the stealth wicker bill as I cannot currently use 325s with the current suspension and wheel. I think it did help me gain back some grip in the rear especially in longer turns. Being able to hit the target PSIs should also help however.

Overall, OEM tires performed great but it's possibly because it wasn't that warm in the morning and OEM tires work best when they're not overheated. After a consistent hot laps, however, I saw my hot PSIs reach to 39-40 psi up front then decided to get into cool down laps to preserve them.

Trofeo R, on the other hand feels like they may be a better match for warmer days (which is good for summer) and takes about full 2-3 laps to warm up with a bit different driving characteristics (slip angle). OEM after a few hot laps feel a bit lose but Trofeo R is bit sharper and allow you to brake late. Braking is also improved with the Trofeo Rs.

Another important different is the fact that as I was pushing the OEM tires I felt like they were getting a bit greasy and I felt like there's not much room left in those. Whereas with the Trofeo Rs, I could only do one session and tires and overheating was not an issue. The overall gap might be slightly bigger than 1.1 seconds in a 2 minute lap course because of that.

Here's a video from the event, comparing the best laps of the two setups:



Update: (2017/6/14)

I finally had a chance to compare the all three tires. I did my third event with the NT01s (305/325s) .

Which one is the best tires/setup of all three? Well, the answer is "it depends". They are all very close but with very different driving characteristics/slip angles. It's somewhat easier to rotate with the NT01s and being able to go full throttle at the corner exit sooner than the others. Thanks to the additional grip in the rear with 325s. This however becomes a bit disadvantage at the ORP since gears are a bit longer than the Trofeo Rs which makes me alter the shifting points and possibly cause some time because of that.

In terms of lap times, I believe the lighter and a bit more heat resistant Trofeo Rs will have the advantage on the tighter courses with a lot of body weight transfer such as ORP. No wonder I did my best lap at the ORP with this setup.

However, on a faster course where I can use additional grip in rear such as Ridge (RMP) NT01s felt faster. I didn't use the OEM setup at the ridge but I wouldn't be surprised if it would match my best time with the Trofeo Rs there since the overall feel was better.

In short, for the best overall tire and streetability I would still pick the OEM wheels and tire combo. Especially if you want to keep just one set of tires and wheels. Our MRC suspension calibration is based on that OEM tire/wheel setup anyways.

If you can get a dedicated track tire/wheel setup however, going with wider NT01s might be better in terms of overall lap times and to fight with understeer up front. It's just so much fun driving NT01s but when the track conditions are hot be ready to put your best lap after the warm up lap or 2nd or 3rd lap. I am not saying they overheat like most street tires like OEM or RE71Rs but the optimal lap times (in all the cars that I've tried NT01s previously) was when they're relatively cooler.

Trofeo R driving characteristics didn't really impress me a lot. I could definitely feel the softer sidewall or softer feel of the tires compared to OEM and NT01s. However, weight and gearing advantage (3% shorter gears vs 1.5% shorter gears on NT01 with 5 lbs additional weight on each corner) is very noticeable. Although, I couldn't get on the throttle as early as the NT01s once I did it was quicker on the straightaways and easily make up for that. It just didn't feel right or enjoyable to me. They're also expensive


I have to note though, I didn't have the -2.9 camber up front with the OEM setup or the Trofeo Rs so there may be a slight advantage there.

I did 1:54.9 at the last event at the ORP with the 305/325s NT01s. It was a warmer day than the last time I used Trofeo Rs there and did 1:54.7. Notice how easy to rotate the car with throttle and the different slip angles:


I hope this helps

[Provoste]

I expect you'll see an even greater delta depending on track surface elsewhere. I was running with a buddy on Trofeo's and he was similarly happy with them.

I'm just back from my first full weekend on RE71R's only (didn't bring slicks). I'm astonished by the RE71R's the more I drive them. Definitely on par with a NT01 from overall lap time, slightly better lateral grip than OE G3's, and definitely better longitudinal grip. That said... they're also wearing faster than the G3's!

[mbar]

Originally Posted by Provoste

That said... they're also wearing faster than the G3's!

What lifespan would you predict for the RE71R ?

[Ryephile]

Thanks Glamcem for the info. 1.1 seconds is a nice improvement.

Originally Posted by Provoste

I expect you'll see an even greater delta depending on track surface elsewhere. I was running with a buddy on Trofeo's and he was similarly happy with them.

I'm just back from my first full weekend on RE71R's only (didn't bring slicks). I'm astonished by the RE71R's the more I drive them. Definitely on par with a NT01 from overall lap time, slightly better lateral grip than OE G3's, and definitely better longitudinal grip. That said... they're also wearing faster than the G3's!

Re: RE71R. Trade grip for treadlife, makes sense.

Sounds like the NT01 still reigns as the value king.

[oneredry]

so given this analysis, what do you (or some can speak of) versus the PS4? (Michelins)

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Provoste

I expect you'll see an even greater delta depending on track surface elsewhere. I was running with a buddy on Trofeo's and he was similarly happy with them.

I'm just back from my first full weekend on RE71R's only (didn't bring slicks). I'm astonished by the RE71R's the more I drive them. Definitely on par with a NT01 from overall lap time, slightly better lateral grip than OE G3's, and definitely better longitudinal grip. That said... they're also wearing faster than the G3's!

Yeap, they're also great dual purpose tires and not that expensive problem is the inconsistency, especially in a hot summer day after 4-5 hot laps that's where the real R comps and NT01 shine

Originally Posted by mbar

What lifespan would you predict for the RE71R ?

After the 4th event with RE71Rs on my S2000 I could definitely tell the grip started falling off a little bit. People had similar experience on S2000s

[Eric SS]

Great info, thanks! I'm guessing on a non-1LE SS you would expect to see at least a 2 second pickup on lap times between OEM and Trofeo's.

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by glamcem

After the 4th event with RE71Rs on my S2000 I could definitely tell the grip started falling off a little bit. People had similar experience on S2000s

Interesting, not my experience. A bunch of my buddies race PTE with NASA and do enduros in their Miata race cars, they run RE71R's for enduros and see the best lap times right before they cord (similar to NT01). Also, my dad has a GT4 and THE tire for the GT4 is the RE71R. If you see a GT4 at a track- 9 times out of 10 it's on RE71R's or Hoosiers. The GT4 guys also report their best times on low tread RE71R's. Thankfully, I still have a good bit of tread left on mine... I need it in case it rains at Watkins Glen later this month! I'm super excited, bucket list trip to WGI. I'll keep you guys in the loop on my RE71R experience as they burn down.

[TrackClub]

awesome feedback. looks like we have at least 2 choices for uber dual duty tires.
clearly an R comp or slick will handle heat better but then again they are a single purpose tire a DOT designation notwithstanding. I am REALLY impressed that the delta between the oem tires and Trofeos was *relatively* small. I wouldn't view 10 degree change in ambient to mean much, really. having said that, things may have been different in 75-80 degree weather.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Man, you were flying!

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Eric SS

Great info, thanks! I'm guessing on a non-1LE SS you would expect to see at least a 2 second pickup on lap times between OEM and Trofeo's.

I cannot speak for the non-1LE SS as the MRC tuning and/or spring rates, sway bars and few other things might be different which can ultimately affect the overall experience

Originally Posted by Provoste

Interesting, not my experience. A bunch of my buddies race PTE with NASA and do enduros in their Miata race cars, they run RE71R's for enduros and see the best lap times right before they cord (similar to NT01). Also, my dad has a GT4 and THE tire for the GT4 is the RE71R. If you see a GT4 at a track- 9 times out of 10 it's on RE71R's or Hoosiers. The GT4 guys also report their best times on low tread RE71R's. Thankfully, I still have a good bit of tread left on mine... I need it in case it rains at Watkins Glen later this month! I'm super excited, bucket list trip to WGI. I'll keep you guys in the loop on my RE71R experience as they burn down.

Very interesting, this is the first time I am hearing they last till they cord I wonder if it's because of the climate or maybe if the size differences (such as load rating) make any difference. I still have tread on my used RE71Rs but the grip was not there for sure.
These tires are very popular in many races is because they're 200 rated, cheater tires maybe?

Here's another feedback from S2KI:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-ra.../#post23940373

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

awesome feedback. looks like we have at least 2 choices for uber dual duty tires.
clearly an R comp or slick will handle heat better but then again they are a single purpose tire a DOT designation notwithstanding. I am REALLY impressed that the delta between the oem tires and Trofeos was *relatively* small. I wouldn't view 10 degree change in ambient to mean much, really. having said that, things may have been different in 75-80 degree weather.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Man, you were flying!

Thanks, I am still learning this car. 1LE is very communicative and gives a lot of confidence which makes the whole learning process relatively easier

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by oneredry

so given this analysis, what do you (or some can speak of) versus the PS4? (Michelins)

I am almost sure that these will be very similar to PSS tires but maybe with a bit better peak performance. PSS and generally most tires in that category are typically good for 2 hot laps and then start overheating at the track.

[TrackClub]

Re: PSS a good friend runs them on his C6 Z06 and he certainly lasts a full 30min stint without major overheating issues. But street tires will heat up faster and become greasy faster than stickier compounds almost "by design".

Re: OEM shoes vs Trofeos: so what I'd like to add is the following:
1) Trofeos actually had an advantage of shorter gearing and better braking as F tire was 2 sizes bigger than F OEM. So much more kudos for Good Year's "cheats": yay!
2) Trofeos cost MUCH more and will be outlasted longevity wise by Good Years by a long mile.
3) Trofeos can't be driven in any serious wet conditions, so not dual purpose tire.

Not trying to diss Trofeos, but given the relatively small lap pace delta, cost consideration, single purpose and gearing/braking advantage - I am astonished what Good Year developed as OEM shoes for this car.

Re: