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Old 08-18-2019, 05:28 PM   #15
cmitchell17

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
E85 won't hurt anything. You will have to change the oil sooner and the OLM will reflect it. Other then that let it eat.
Is there compensators in the oil life calibration to reflect E85? I havent noticed a difference and I run E85 99% of the time and have been for 2 or 3 years now. I usually go 2 full oil life cycles before I change mine. Everytime I do an oil analysis my base number and metal percentages look good and they keep saying try longer. I usually runs out to 15-20k miles every oil change.

For $125+ for an dex OS oil change that is somewhat reasonable to get 15-20k out of the oil. We also hold 11.5 something quarts of oil so we can run longer without as much dilution. I would like to try to look at the flex fuel trucks manual as well to confirm they actually recommend changing your oil sooner. If this is true it would basically negate any benefit, besides performance, of E85.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rlhay2 View Post
With E85 you are jamming 30% more fuel into the compression chamber. Every cylinder has some leakage, thus this extra fuel winds up in the oil.
...
Are you "jamming 30%" more into the compression chamber or does it have to do with the lower energy content of e85 that causes the up to 30% loss in efficiency?
If I'm jamming 30% more fuel into my compression chamber just by adding a FF kit... wow!
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by aronSlusa View Post
Are you "jamming 30%" more into the compression chamber or does it have to do with the lower energy content of e85 that causes the up to 30% loss in efficiency?
If I'm jamming 30% more fuel into my compression chamber just by adding a FF kit... wow!
Yeah I’m seeing 15-20% but yeah
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:15 PM   #18
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I’ve run e85 for 3 years now — changed oil at 2700 miles (after forge break-in) the 6200 miles (44% life left) - 0 contamination- and I run e85 all the time.

Here is my blackstone report (do it every change). My intervals will be @ 5k miles now

Oh, and I do track my car (note the fuel % and water % in the oil):



Oil reports will tell you how thing are going...

-Don
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:25 AM   #19
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Hi all,


Somethings to consider, and Rlhay2 has it correct.


First you have to know why the automaker recommends such low viscosity oils. It has NOTHING to do with what is best for your engine, it only allows them to meet International CAFE fuel economy standards, and even without the amount of raw fuel dilution running gasoline that thins and dilute the already super thin oil resulting in barely the protection needed. Now add E85 to the mix and you have even more dilution. The fuel in a GDI engine is introduced at 2,000-3,000 PSI plus, and milliseconds before TDC and spark ignition, so between 8-12 times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the rings washing the cylinder walls and diluting the oil. We only run Amsoil 5w50 Signature Series in the GDI engines for this reason.


Also, there was a question on how water enters the crankcase? Water enters mainly when it is released during the intense pressure and het of the combustion process. While most is expelled out the exhaust, there is still a good amount that pis part of the blow-by entering the crankcase. In fact, here is an analysis showing what this blow-by is made up of when we flush and evacuate it with our E2-X system designed just for GDI engines:






This is 70% water and acids (sulfuric the most), 23% raw fuel, and 7% oil saturated with abrasive particulate matter shed from the intake valves, etc.


So an oil temperature (not coolant temp) needs to be above 200*F to properly "flash off" as much of this as it can.


Our E2 and E2-X systems for these constantly flushes and removes these as soon as they enter so your oil is NOT subject to all of this that the port injections of the past had very little issue with. (in the next 30 days we have a LT1 coming in with 55k miles for a before dyno, manual valve cleaning, and after dyno to show how the coking impacts power at those miles).


So, you cannot look back at the engines of the past as examples of oil contamination, etc. In fact, here is a recent oil analysis of a customer at over 13,000 miles using our Catch Can system, and he is making 20# of boost on a twin turbo. Next test will be done at 20k miles showing how our system keeps the crankcase as free as possible of these contaminants.





And this shows installing our system on an GDI engine with high fuel dilution and running it for a few thousand more miles. Note how we are able to actually remove some of the fuel dilution and increase viscosity:






So, if these engines could last like the port fuel injection engines of the past, that could be neglected and still go 150-200k miles the engine warranties would still be 100k miles. But these engines are subject to so many wear causing stresses you need to take some steps to care for them properly if you want to make them last. There is a reason the industry now only warranties GDI engines for 36, 50, 60K miles now.


Technical questions? Just ask. Were here to educate. These are not the engines you were accustomed to.


The industry was forced to adopt GDI technology and it is far from perfected.


Cheers!!


Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammdo View Post
I’ve run e85 for 3 years now — changed oil at 2700 miles (after forge break-in) the 6200 miles (44% life left) - 0 contamination- and I run e85 all the time.

Here is my blackstone report (do it every change). My intervals will be @ 5k miles now

Oh, and I do track my car (note the fuel % and water % in the oil):



Oil reports will tell you how thing are going...

-Don

Just to pick a little your running Joe gibbs racing oil and by my very bad math ran 3500 miles on the oil and Blackstone recommended you changed the oil at the correct time.


Sound like the original posters advice was pretty good.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Booher View Post
When running e85, your oil life is cut in half, that's why they recommened the oil change.

What?


Where did this gem come from?
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
Is there compensators in the oil life calibration to reflect E85? I havent noticed a difference and I run E85 99% of the time and have been for 2 or 3 years now. I usually go 2 full oil life cycles before I change mine. Everytime I do an oil analysis my base number and metal percentages look good and they keep saying try longer. I usually runs out to 15-20k miles every oil change.

For $125+ for an dex OS oil change that is somewhat reasonable to get 15-20k out of the oil. We also hold 11.5 something quarts of oil so we can run longer without as much dilution. I would like to try to look at the flex fuel trucks manual as well to confirm they actually recommend changing your oil sooner. If this is true it would basically negate any benefit, besides performance, of E85.
The OLM monitor shows to change the oil sooner with E85 compared to running 93( I always reset trip meter A and log mileage vs OLM % on my vehicles). The first oil change I performed on my car was around 3k miles and the OLM was showing 50% life with 93 octane. Since switching to E85, the OLM shows 50% around 1500-2000miles. I have never ran the oil life to 0% on this car. I do on my 2016 Terrain Denali 3.6. It goes about 6k miles before the OLM says to change it using 91 octane. It also does not consume 1 drop of oil in 6k miles and it's getting ready to turn 70k.

FWIW my SS takes 10 quarts of oil not 11.5. I can change my oil for $56.00 with Castrol Edge Synthetic and a K&N filter. I'll change it every 2500-3000mile just because I run the car hard and prefer to do it that way. I am sure the oil still has life left, but how I treat my performance car is different then how I treat my daily drivers.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
The OLM monitor shows to change the oil sooner with E85 compared to running 93( I always reset trip meter A and log mileage vs OLM % on my vehicles). The first oil change I performed on my car was around 3k miles and the OLM was showing 50% life with 93 octane. Since switching to E85, the OLM shows 50% around 1500-2000miles. I have never ran the oil life to 0% on this car. I do on my 2016 Terrain Denali 3.6. It goes about 6k miles before the OLM says to change it using 91 octane. It also does not consume 1 drop of oil in 6k miles and it's getting ready to turn 70k.

FWIW my SS takes 10 quarts of oil not 11.5. I can change my oil for $56.00 with Castrol Edge Synthetic and a K&N filter. I'll change it every 2500-3000mile just because I run the car hard and prefer to do it that way. I am sure the oil still has life left, but how I treat my performance car is different then how I treat my daily drivers.

The OLM in all GM cars doesn't actually 'read' or 'sample' the oil. There is no sensor in the oil pan/line.


It's an algorithm that keeps track of RPM, WOT %, mileage, temps and infers oil life from that.


I have 5,000 street miles, 500 track miles and about 250 AutoX runs on my E85 setup and my 2 Blackstone's since the E85 switch are nearly identical to my 93 reports.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:06 PM   #24
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Just to pick a little your running Joe gibbs racing oil and by my very bad math ran 3500 miles on the oil and Blackstone recommended you changed the oil at the correct time.


Sound like the original posters advice was pretty good.
First change was ~2700 miles on a new engine (did a 500 mile break in) — second was ~6200 miles later as they suggested I go farther between changes on the first report. The last ck showed I pushed the change interval to the edge (@44%) so 50% life or 5k miles is the best time for me to change.

Driven DT40 is the oil my builder recommended (GPI). For what I do, 4000-5000 miles is a safe interval for my oil changes - depending on how much I race...

-Don
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:35 PM   #25
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Here is my last oil analysis done with 99% E85, you can see I went 12,500 miles and Blackstone is saying I could even try 14,000 with the total base number and dilution looking the way it is. This is letting 2 oil lifes go by.Oil Analysis E85.pdf
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
The OLM in all GM cars doesn't actually 'read' or 'sample' the oil. There is no sensor in the oil pan/line.


It's an algorithm that keeps track of RPM, WOT %, mileage, temps and infers oil life from that.


I have 5,000 street miles, 500 track miles and about 250 AutoX runs on my E85 setup and my 2 Blackstone's since the E85 switch are nearly identical to my 93 reports.
All this may be true, but when I run e85 100% of the time, my OLM definitely drops percentage faster than running 93 octane all the time. Not sure how the ECM/OLM factors this in but it drops faster for sure.
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:58 AM   #27
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All this may be true, but when I run e85 100% of the time, my OLM definitely drops percentage faster than running 93 octane all the time. Not sure how the ECM/OLM factors this in but it drops faster for sure.

Placebo.


I have two changes on my E85 setup. I change my oil at 35%. The last two have been within 5% of the mileage of my last 4 93 changes.


Because E85 setups make so much more power, you may be spending more time in the top/critical 'rev range' (>5000) than you were before. That will affect OLM.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
Placebo.


I have two changes on my E85 setup. I change my oil at 35%. The last two have been within 5% of the mileage of my last 4 93 changes.


Because E85 setups make so much more power, you may be spending more time in the top/critical 'rev range' (>5000) than you were before. That will affect OLM.

How is it Placebo if you log mileage vs OLM Percentage? My OLM % declines faster on E85 just like 70chevelles.

And it should be the opposite of what you said in your second paragraph. E85 makes more torque so you don't need to rev the engine out to move faster. I don't go WOT or rev the engine out anymore then I was on 93.
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