[SJFGTO]

Just as a quick aside, when I graduated from high school in 1977 the real Challenger was long gone, the Camaro had a 170 HP engine (185 with the mid year Z-28) and the fastest factory cars were the L-82 Vette and the 200 HP Trans Am. The Little Red Truck from Dodge or even a 454 two wheel drive Chevy truck were right there as well. So, having this discussion about 600/700/800 factory cars running 9's and 10's is all good. Would never have been imaginable 41 years ago.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by SJFGTO

Just as a quick aside, when I graduated from high school in 1977 the real Challenger was long gone, the Camaro had a 170 HP engine (185 with the mid year Z-28) and the fastest factory cars were the L-82 Vette and the 200 HP Trans Am. The Little Red Truck from Dodge or even a 454 two wheel drive Chevy truck were right there as well. So, having this discussion about 600/700/800 factory cars running 9's and 10's is all good. Would never have been imaginable 41 years ago.

Amen to that brother. It’s pretty bad when the fastest production US vehicle in 1979 was the little red express pickup. It beat the Vette that year. Haha!!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

If this is the case why is there discussion about a ZL1 Drag Pack version? I am not up to date on this discussion but I have seen it mentioned several times in this forum. Is this an owner install option, or something Chevy is considering?

Dodge raised the bar again with the new Widebody running 10s due to actual rubber under the car, and will introduce a new Hellcat with more power and some options from the Demon in 19, Ford will release the GT500, more than likely Chevy will be at the rear of the pack once again in regards to street/strip unless they step up as well.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524566

I think the GT500 will be much more capable than anything from Dodge. More multi dimensional

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by hotlap

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524566

I think the GT500 will be much more capable than anything from Dodge. More multi dimensional

Definitely curious on if the gt500 will be just another flop or not. Overpriced flops is all ford produces now...

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by Tr6

Definitely curious on if the gt500 will be just another flop or not. Overpriced flops is all ford produces now...

I saw a brand new 18 GT auto with just radials running 11.7's this last weekend. just because it's not your cup of tea I don't find that an overpriced flop.

[CaliSpecial]

A humble opinion from across the pond.

Comparing the ZL1 with the Hellcat/ Demon is never going to be an apples for apples comparison. The ZL1 is a highly accomplished track weapon and the Hellcat is a muscle car, in the purest sense of the word. Big body, comfortable cruising but with enough power to scare the living daylights out of you! The Demon then takes it another step further in that direction.

My honest opinion is that the Hellcat/Demon is probably the last of the muscle cars in the 'Old Skool' sense. Sure, there will always be something faster or more powerful or more capable but here in the U.K. I have two friends both with 2017 Hellcats and damn those cars make me smile, in the same way that the big block Mopars of the late sixties/early seventies used to!

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2SS and it would've been a ZL1 if I could've afforded it, but as I said before, Challenger/Camaro... not apples for apples.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by CaliSpecial

A humble opinion from across the pond.

Comparing the ZL1 with the Hellcat/ Demon is never going to be an apples for apples comparison. The ZL1 is a highly accomplished track weapon and the Hellcat is a muscle car, in the purest sense of the word. Big body, comfortable cruising but with enough power to scare the living daylights out of you! The Demon then takes it another step further in that direction.

My honest opinion is that the Hellcat/Demon is probably the last of the muscle cars in the 'Old Skool' sense. Sure, there will always be something faster or more powerful or more capable but here in the U.K. I have two friends both with 2017 Hellcats and damn those cars make me smile, in the same way that the big block Mopars of the late sixties/early seventies used to!

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2SS and it would've been a ZL1 if I could've afforded it, but as I said before, Challenger/Camaro... not apples for apples.

See, Billy Idol gets it, and he’s way over there on the other side of the river.

[Harry76]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

"muscle cars are intended for street use and occasional drag racing.They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing."

I guess because Harry off the internet has a different opinion we should go and change the definition of what a muscle car is just for him.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports cars with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."


I consider high performance driving more than going in a straight line.
The original 60s and early 70s "muscle cars" turned and stopped as well as any other car of the time.
I would consider the ZL1 more of a modern muscle car than the Demon which is closer to the original muscle car.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Harry76

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports cars with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."


I consider high performance driving more than going in a straight line.
The original 60s and early 70s "muscle cars" turned and stopped as well as any other car of the time.
I would consider the ZL1 more of a modern muscle car than the Demon which is closer to the original muscle car.

Haha! Harry did you live back then and drive any of the big block cars that were considered muscle car? This post tells you didnt

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Haha! Harry did you live back then and drive any of the big block cars that were considered muscle car? This post tells you didnt

Nah man, an iron big block sedan with 4 drump brakes and bias ply tires carved those corners, just like the new ZL1

[Harry76]

I have owned several of the so called muscle cars, and they were intended to corner as well as anything else made at the time except vettes or exotics, but we have learned to make cars corner now as well as go fast in a straight line.
They used the brakes they had at the time, they were limited by technology, today we aren't, we can make a car turn as well as go fast in a straight line, so a modern muscle car can do it all!

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Harry76

I have owned several of the so called muscle cars, and they were intended to corner as well as anything else made at the time except vettes or exotics, but we have learned to make cars corner now as well as go fast in a straight line.
They used the brakes they had at the time, they were limited by technology, today we aren't, we can make a car turn as well as go fast in a straight line, so a modern muscle car can do it all!

They had to do something to sell cars after the smog police interfered with performance so they decided to improve the suspension. That's all they had for a long long time. An example would be the '85 Iroc z. A whopping 215 hp but it went around a corner fairly well for the time. The Vette even a little better but the power was anemic at the time. Of course the game has evolved with the advent of the computer but with the Insurance industry designing cars the style of the older Muscle Cars have the clear advantage. They are plain simple basic vehicles which can be worked on with a hand full of wrenches. The modern car is superior to the old Muscle car in nearly 100% of all things considered. Style and comfort is the difference.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

I saw a brand new 18 GT auto with just radials running 11.7's this last weekend. just because it's not your cup of tea I don't find that an overpriced flop.

Sure you did...

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Sure you did...

It was at beech bend last weekend and a few forum members and myself witnessed it. If you want to look ignorant continue on otherwise
Best you keep quiet.