[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by JBones81

Being qualified to chime in, here, since I have owned both a zl1 and a Tesla for the last 1.5 year -

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much of what you read online is overblown or intentionally made to sound worse than it is because of the anti-EV agenda.

We have had 1 single issue with ours since we've had it. One of the taillights got condensation inside. We contacted tesla thru the app, they were out the next day in our driveway replacing the light for free. That was it. Literally zero other maintainance on this car and we already have 20k miles. It is faster than the zl1 from a dig. I can't pass it until about 80mph or so. It drives very smooth - i'm not getting knocked around everytime I drive over a bump.

The zl1 looks way better. It obviously sounds way better (for those who appreciate that - I know many Tesla owners love the silence, but I want to hear performance cars). The Tesla is much easier to drive fast in real world situations. To me, it feels like the handling is comparable, but I've never had either car on a track or really tried to find the limits on public roads.

When we got the car, we spent $400 to install a wall charger in the garage. We charge it after midnight when rates are the lowest. However, my wife does get free charging at work, so that is a huge plus. We only spend about $100/mo of our own money to power this thing.

So, not to get defensive - I don't personally care if people drive ICE cars or EVs, but being objective, there is no way that one can say ICE cars are "better." Having driven one now for over a year, I actually prefer the way the Tesla drives. When you really get into that community (as annoying as many of the owners are, lol) you also see that most of these cars do not have major problems. Certainly not more than ICE cars do. I've already had the zl1 into the dealer 5 times in the last year - nothing major, but little things that required attention, and an oil change, and a differential fluid service.

EVs are great for some people. ICE cars make more sense for others. Let's stop the hate and just enjoy our cars. I was NEVER an EV fan, but when gas was at $7/gal and we were spending $440/mo on my wife's SUV, we made the switch, and it has been great. Be open minded and you may surprise yourself.

Appreciate the input, though your situation is skewed living in a much more temperature moderate CA city. Also, tired of the old trope "it's faster off the line". Of course it is, it's AWD. I can't think of any AWD 450+hp ICE car that isn't faster than the ZL1 off the line either (not counting behemoth trucks and SUVs). I get the "instant torque" thing for passing situations, etc. But I wish people would stop worshipping the ground EVs roll over because they are quick from a dig. Everyone I talk to thinks all EVs are ultra-fast ICE clobbering vehicles, when in reality, only some of them are at even SS levels of acceleration, much less ZL1 levels.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It’s very likely that EVs don’t do what YOU need them to do…yet.

Thats exactly what I said. They dont and they wont in the foreseeable future.

I take quite a few trips requiring at least 1 refill on gas. No thanks to waiting for a recharge. Plenty of people are good with taking breaks and walking around or getting a meal and thats their business.

Having to plan on the car being on the home charger for hours to avoid the gas station even puttering on short trips still means the EV is down longer than the ICE for fueling/charging purposes. Plus, at home charging takes way way longer than pumping gas. The only crutch for that is having 480 3-ph ran to your house to power a 30KW charger.

Throttle house didnt run a HPDE event. There isnt an EV I know of that can do that for all kinds of reasons. I suspect by the end of the first 1/2 hour session, IF it made it to the end, it would be severely discharged and no longer competitive.

As you said, the government seems bent on forcing people into these cars and they're doing it under false pretenses. EV's arent going to save the world, they arent the green solution that the propaganda sells them to be, and they are not a practical replacement for people making long distance trips or engaging in HPDE.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It’s 3 degrees in Detroit as I type this. My Tesla Model Y is in the garage charged to 80% (262 miles). It’s charged to 80% because I limit the charge to 80%. It’s way more than I need for everyday driving. For travelling I’ll charge to 100%

No issues charging it in the cold. This is my first winter with it, but fact of the matter is, many many people in this area have had Teslas through multiple winters. I would also point out that Teslas are even more popular in Canada than in the US. Go figure.

There is no doubt that I will not see all of the 262 miles driving it in the cold. There is also no doubt that I won’t need even half of it, so no worries on my part. It’s also true that all of my gas cars get lower mileage in winter because of fuel blend differences in the winter plus heating losses. Not a big deal because I can always find a gas station. Likewise, with the Tesla, I can always find my garage.

This generalization is too broad to be useful as an argument. 90% of Canadians live South of the 49th parallel. The others live on the West Coast where the being right on the ocean or so close to it leads to very mild temperatures for the majority of our winters (Vancouver rarely sees temps below 28F).

So yes, in Toronto, the GTA, and Vancouver/Victoria/Vancouver Island, the uptake for Teslas is higher than the total US average. Moot point since 100% of those users use them for short commutes, are their 2nd, 3rd or 4th vehicle, store them in a heated garage like you, and/or don't experience actual cold weather as in the lower mainland.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Thats exactly what I said. They dont and they wont in the foreseeable future.

I take quite a few trips requiring at least 1 refill on gas. No thanks to waiting for a recharge. Plenty of people are good with taking breaks and walking around or getting a meal and thats their business.

Having to plan on the car being on the home charger for hours to avoid the gas station even puttering on short trips still means the EV is down longer than the ICE for fueling/charging purposes. Plus, at home charging takes way way longer than pumping gas. The only crutch for that is having 480 3-ph ran to your house to power a 30KW charger.

Throttle house didnt run a HPDE event. There isnt an EV I know of that can do that for all kinds of reasons. I suspect by the end of the first 1/2 hour session, IF it made it to the end, it would be severely discharged and no longer competitive.

As you said, the government seems bent on forcing people into these cars and they're doing it under false pretenses. EV's arent going to save the world, they arent the green solution that the propaganda sells them to be, and they are not a practical replacement for people making long distance trips or engaging in HPDE.

For the most part we seem to be in violent agreement except for one thing. Outside of California, I’ve never said that the government is forcing people into EV. In fact, I most often argue the opposite. The manufacturers are forcing this and they started doing that before the current administration. The current administration is giving it a boost buy offering incentives, but for the most part, those incentives are saying “if the world is shifting to EV, we want to make sure they are built here, so we’ll provide incentives for the ones that are”.

As far as HPDE, a Tesla would not be my choice for an HPDE, but to say that they are not capable can be easily disproven. They can be capable. Again, wouldn’t be my choice. At least not yet. Remember, we are at the start of the transition to EV, just like in the 1980s we were at the start of the transition to fuel injection. We’ve progressed from throttle body to port to direct to direct + port and high pressure direct. Same way, EVs will progress from go fast in a straight line to HPDE capable to some HPDE focused models.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

This generalization is too broad to be useful as an argument. 90% of Canadians live South of the 49th parallel. The others live on the West Coast where the being right on the ocean or so close to it leads to very mild temperatures for the majority of our winters (Vancouver rarely sees temps below 28F).

So yes, in Toronto, the GTA, and Vancouver/Victoria/Vancouver Island, the uptake for Teslas is higher than the total US average. Moot point since 100% of those users use them for short commutes, are their 2nd, 3rd or 4th vehicle, store them in a heated garage like you, and/or don't experience actual cold weather as in the lower mainland.

My single point is that EVs have a higher penetration rate in Canada than they do in the US. Period. All the points you make are true and are contributory to the fact that Canada has a higher EV take rate than the US EVEN THOUGH it is a colder climate. So the idea that EV doesn’t work in colder climates is not consistent with their popularity in Canada. Then there’s Norway, Sweden, etc that have been using high volumes of EV for years. Guess they didn’t get the memo that EVs don’t work in cold weather.

[JBones81]

Originally Posted by clg82

Would still like to know where Mr. Greenpeace JBones smogs that modified RS3 in California lolllllllllllll

I never said anything in my post about emissions, smog checks, or the environment, so I will not come in here to argue those points with you since you just randomly introduced them and steered the entire topic off course.

My audi is a 2018, so I don't have to smog it until 2025. Over the years, I have owned 47 cars here in California. I have never owned a car for more than 3 years (the rs3 is the first one). It is unlikely that I will have to deal with smog on that car, since I plan to sell it in the next year to get something new. I'm waiting to see what are the new Model 3 Performance specs. If the 2024 outperforms the previous gen (which does 0-60 in 3.1sec) I may buy another one. I'm also looking at the BMW m3 xdrive comp sedan, since those are absolute monsters with bolt ons and e85.

[JBones81]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Appreciate the input, though your situation is skewed living in a much more temperature moderate CA city. Also, tired of the old trope "it's faster off the line". Of course it is, it's AWD. I can't think of any AWD 450+hp ICE car that isn't faster than the ZL1 off the line either (not counting behemoth trucks and SUVs). I get the "instant torque" thing for passing situations, etc. But I wish people would stop worshipping the ground EVs roll over because they are quick from a dig. Everyone I talk to thinks all EVs are ultra-fast ICE clobbering vehicles, when in reality, only some of them are at even SS levels of acceleration, much less ZL1 levels.

For me it's about real world situations. My driving isn't on a track or drag strip, and I'm not trying to spend the night in jail for doing 130mph on the freeway. Launching the rs3 or the Tesla is easy and will leave 99% of every other car behind before you get to 70 (the rs3 will keep pulling, lol).

For your other point about EVs, you're right - most are not supercars that are dusting everything else. I would not consider buying any of those slower ones, anyway. However, for these awd ones that are doing 4.0ish to 60, they're still going to beat most ICE cars in these real world, traffic light to traffic light situations because the acceleration is effortless and traction is not an issue.

But for everyone who is reading this - I am just pointing out what are my experiences. I still own 2 very fast ICE cars. I love having a turbo car on ethanol, an SC car on gas, and the Electric car. I feel like I have access to the best of all worlds. Like I've said before, it is truly a great time to be a car guy - you have so many options. Let's focus less on hate, and more on enjoying what we have available to us. If you want to keep the ICE cars, great. If you want to try something new - shop around, see which EVs you like, and I'm pretty sure most of you won't be disappointed. I know I was pleasantly surprised with ours.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Appreciate the input, though your situation is skewed living in a much more temperature moderate CA city. Also, tired of the old trope "it's faster off the line". Of course it is, it's AWD. I can't think of any AWD 450+hp ICE car that isn't faster than the ZL1 off the line either (not counting behemoth trucks and SUVs). I get the "instant torque" thing for passing situations, etc. But I wish people would stop worshipping the ground EVs roll over because they are quick from a dig. Everyone I talk to thinks all EVs are ultra-fast ICE clobbering vehicles, when in reality, only some of them are at even SS levels of acceleration, much less ZL1 levels.

EV's are more than just quick from a dig, its the instant torque of electric motors coupled with no waiting for the transmission to downshift or waiting for the trans to change gears which accelerating. An EV with power can literally snap your head back from a roll just by blipping the throttle pedal. They're just fun as Hell to drive, period, at least Tesla's are. I can't speak for any others that I haven't owned.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by JBones81

For me it's about real world situations. My driving isn't on a track or drag strip, and I'm not trying to spend the night in jail for doing 130mph on the freeway. Launching the rs3 or the Tesla is easy and will leave 99% of every other car behind before you get to 70 (the rs3 will keep pulling, lol).

For your other point about EVs, you're right - most are not supercars that are dusting everything else. I would not consider buying any of those slower ones, anyway. However, for these awd ones that are doing 4.0ish to 60, they're still going to beat most ICE cars in these real world, traffic light to traffic light situations because the acceleration is effortless and traction is not an issue.

But for everyone who is reading this - I am just pointing out what are my experiences. I still own 2 very fast ICE cars. I love having a turbo car on ethanol, an SC car on gas, and the Electric car. I feel like I have access to the best of all worlds. Like I've said before, it is truly a great time to be a car guy - you have so many options. Let's focus less on hate, and more on enjoying what we have available to us. If you want to keep the ICE cars, great. If you want to try something new - shop around, see which EVs you like, and I'm pretty sure most of you won't be disappointed. I know I was pleasantly surprised with ours.

Same here man, there's so many people that haven't driven an EV and have no idea what the experience is like. I've had a 1000hp Hellcat, I own a 800hp ZL1 and a McLaren 720S, but I've also owned a Tesla Model Y and a Model X Plaid. I REALLY enjoyed the Tesla's and would still own one if the 720S didn't eat up all my toy money. LOL.

[arpad_m]

James, in all honesty, I don't understand why you (and a few others) are such ardent EV apologists on this forum, going to such lengths and putting so much effort into these EV posts. Why are you trying to convince people so hard?

If it was just one occasional post here and there, I'd keep my mouth shut, but it's definitely a trend... and for the record, I have nothing against these posts or the availability of EVs in general, to each their own, as long as these things aren't mandated in unacceptable ways. But you already know that even better than I do.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why not go one step better and eliminate the time spent at the gas station altogether?

Because most of us are willing to take 5 minutes to top off as opposed to the mind numbing driving experience that you get when driving an EV.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Appreciate the input, though your situation is skewed living in a much more temperature moderate CA city. Also, tired of the old trope "it's faster off the line". Of course it is, it's AWD. I can't think of any AWD 450+hp ICE car that isn't faster than the ZL1 off the line either (not counting behemoth trucks and SUVs). I get the "instant torque" thing for passing situations, etc. But I wish people would stop worshipping the ground EVs roll over because they are quick from a dig. Everyone I talk to thinks all EVs are ultra-fast ICE clobbering vehicles, when in reality, only some of them are at even SS levels of acceleration, much less ZL1 levels.

Idaho please don't throw common sense into this thread.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by JBones81

For me it's about real world situations. My driving isn't on a track or drag strip, and I'm not trying to spend the night in jail for doing 130mph on the freeway. Launching the rs3 or the Tesla is easy and will leave 99% of every other car behind before you get to 70 (the rs3 will keep pulling, lol).

For your other point about EVs, you're right - most are not supercars that are dusting everything else. I would not consider buying any of those slower ones, anyway. However, for these awd ones that are doing 4.0ish to 60, they're still going to beat most ICE cars in these real world, traffic light to traffic light situations because the acceleration is effortless and traction is not an issue.

But for everyone who is reading this - I am just pointing out what are my experiences. I still own 2 very fast ICE cars. I love having a turbo car on ethanol, an SC car on gas, and the Electric car. I feel like I have access to the best of all worlds. Like I've said before, it is truly a great time to be a car guy - you have so many options. Let's focus less on hate, and more on enjoying what we have available to us. If you want to keep the ICE cars, great. If you want to try something new - shop around, see which EVs you like, and I'm pretty sure most of you won't be disappointed. I know I was pleasantly surprised with ours.

Ahh residents from Commiefornia, how I won't miss you....

[clg82]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

James, in all honesty, I don't understand why you (and a few others) are such ardent EV apologists on this forum, going to such lengths and putting so much effort into these EV posts. Why are you trying to convince people so hard?

If it was just one occasional post here and there, I'd keep my mouth shut, but it's definitely a trend... and for the record, I have nothing against these posts or the availability of EVs in general, to each their own, as long as these things aren't mandated in unacceptable ways. But you already know that even better than I do.

You already know why, their libtards that think the government knows best. I'm sorry but that's the reality of some of these EV nutjobs.