[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by 19 2SS

What do you mean by numb? like not very rowdy? too smooth to feel fast?

I haven't driven one, but the Throttle House video says numb, light steering with no feedback, bounces 1 too many times over bumps; and they said it feels too insulated from the road. I got the impression from the video the car is very, very capable, but the electronic nannies do a lot of the work for you, and you don't get feedback from the steering so they couldn't feel what the front end was doing.

I don't know, though, I'd have to drive one to decide. The guy saying all that stuff is a track instructor that drives an old-ish M3 so he's probably spoiled with steering feel and wants more of a driver's car than a highly capable but somewhat insulated car that does things for you.

Throttle House M5 Competition Review

[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

As I stated, Audi and Mercedes doesn’t due to German law. Couldn’t get it on mine (both 2018s) and was told by dealers that it’s against the law in Germany. I have no idea what BMW is doing. Maybe they are assembling in US? Maybe only sell in US cars? Maybe added aftermarket? Maybe they don’t care? IDK
Moreover, my point was that I haven’t really found Euro interiors and “bells and whistles” to be any better than the ZL1s.

About the ZL1 interior, I love mine but it uses a lot of hard and somewhat cheap plastic in key places where the well optioned BMW, Audi, MB, Lexus and even my 2020 Acura MDX do not.

These other brands use a lot of soft contact, squishy surfaces, real aluminum, wood, carbon fiber or leather which are nice to the touch or if you bump into it, and it also deadens noise, vibration and squeaks better.

I'm very happy with the interior of my ZLE, but it's not like that. Still, without the nicer interior and softer quality surfaces, mine does not have rattle or buzz issues, it seems very solid and well assembled even after 2 years on rough roads and tracks with DSSVs. I'm impressed.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

10 psi was the standard and now it’s double that. Could it be technological advances.

It's primarily driven by fuel economy requirements.

European manufacturers keep trying to squeeze more power out of smaller displacement engines, hence more boost. However, with more boost comes more blowby and stress on the engine. We simply haven't seen enough of these engines get past 100k miles, but they will lose compression faster if driven hard, there is no free lunch

Even a Honda Accord runs 20 psi now, but I will say their 2.0L has ingenious baffle system built into the head that keeps blowby out of the intake (even though it gets recycled to the crankcase and still degrades/dilutes the oil)

[Stevezx900]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

The point? Maybe some can afford it. And have family and different cars at the same time. These threads always turn into hate. Why can’t we all enjoy our love of speed. Man.

100 percent accurate. If I could own both I definitely would!

[ZLE dude]

[QUOTE=URBAN LEGEND;10957948]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The new M5 is awesome. The ZL1 is awesome. But they are 2 totally different cars in almost all ways possible.

So if that is the case I suggest your buddy go drive an Audi RS6 and report back. A shitton better than that M5 - well, IMHO

EDIT or an E63s for that matter.

EDIT EDIT - I say all this while spending some other rich dude's money

EDIT EDIT EDIT - ~11:30!
The new RS7 is fire too.

A CPO RS7 is what I'm shooting for on my next vehicle purchase. Those cars are beautiful and quick.

[ponyboy96]

Everyone I know that has had an M car has loved it, until the warranty ran out. Then you better bend over. Everyone of those owners were then tickled pink to get rid of it. Plus the depreciation hit on BMW can be >50% within the first 2-3 years of ownership. The ZL1 will hold its value, have fewer issues, easier to work on, and be a classic one day.

Regarding the price, it’s all a value proposition. The m5 is an incredible car. Taking a $50k bath after 2-3 years of ownership, no thanks. There’s kind of a certain price point for me, that I just won’t go there. I just don’t get rolling around in $100k+ cars, 200-300k ferraris, etc... just seems like a waste to me. I could afford it, but chose not to. I’d rather invest that money into something else. Maybe I’m just too poor to understand. Maybe if I had F you money, but I worked hard to be where I am to blow it like that.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by ponyboy96

Everyone I know that has had an M car has loved it, until the warranty ran out. Then you better bend over.

Yep - it's a complex system and almost impossible to work on yourself. Even minor turbo related parts cost a fortune.

With that said, the BMW certified pre-owned program is pretty good.

[2018 ZL1 HBM]

The M5 will beat the A10 to 60 (only) because of the AWD. Any kind of a roll race the A10 will pull on the M5. I have experienced this not only against an M5, but also against an M8. Roll races from 20, 30, 40, and beyond. The only time any of those BMW's will pull is off the line....This was all while my A10 was still stock....

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by ponyboy96

Everyone I know that has had an M car has loved it, until the warranty ran out. Then you better bend over. Everyone of those owners were then tickled pink to get rid of it. Plus the depreciation hit on BMW can be >50% within the first 2-3 years of ownership. The ZL1 will hold its value, have fewer issues, easier to work on, and be a classic one day.

Regarding the price, it’s all a value proposition. The m5 is an incredible car. Taking a $50k bath after 2-3 years of ownership, no thanks. There’s kind of a certain price point for me, that I just won’t go there. I just don’t get rolling around in $100k+ cars, 200-300k ferraris, etc... just seems like a waste to me. I could afford it, but chose not to. I’d rather invest that money into something else. Maybe I’m just too poor to understand. Maybe if I had F you money, but I worked hard to be where I am to blow it like that.

Yep, 2 different (for the masses) kinds of people buying them and will not matter 1 crap about resale, they will move on to the next. And make more money than the most.

Chevy will not sway the masses of the Euro money spenders - no matter where they put the engine, how fast it is in a straight line or turning a corner.

is what it is.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by 2018 ZL1 HBM

The M5 will beat the A10 to 60 (only) because of the AWD. Any kind of a roll race the A10 will pull on the M5. I have experienced this not only against an M5, but also against an M8. Roll races from 20, 30, 40, and beyond. The only time any of those BMW's will pull is off the line....This was all while my A10 was still stock....

This was also my experience, I ran one from about 30 and it was a close race (I was having some traction issues, this was before alignment) but I pulled about a half a car on him up to 85-90. He was one of those (rare) cool M drivers who gave me a thumbs up. Most of them are obnoxious and think their cars are made out of gold.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by 2018 ZL1 HBM

The M5 will beat the A10 to 60 (only) because of the AWD. Any kind of a roll race the A10 will pull on the M5. I have experienced this not only against an M5, but also against an M8. Roll races from 20, 30, 40, and beyond. The only time any of those BMW's will pull is off the line....This was all while my A10 was still stock....

And quarter mile. It’s a 10 second stock car. I have owned both. They feel super fast for anyone trying to run either one.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Yep, 2 different (for the masses) kinds of people buying them and will not matter 1 crap about resale, they will move on to the next. And make more money than the most.

Chevy will not sway the masses of the Euro money spenders - no matter where they put the engine, how fast it is in a straight line or turning a corner.

is what it is.

For some people it's imported or nothing.

[Zl1+911]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Yep, 2 different (for the masses) kinds of people buying them and will not matter 1 crap about resale, they will move on to the next. And make more money than the most.

Chevy will not sway the masses of the Euro money spenders - no matter where they put the engine, how fast it is in a straight line or turning a corner.

is what it is.

not sure this is true.

With the ZL1, Chevy certainly found me as a first time buyer. I have owned 2e39 M5s, 2 E60 M5s, 1 M3, 1 335ci, 3 P cars and 2 Audi S4s prior. However, there is nothing else I would be rather driving right now on track other than my ZLE.

people convert when brand/product offerings evolve....

[mosaic6]

Originally Posted by Stevezx900

That’s why I’m here today. Traded in my pristine v10 M5 for my 1LE.

All I had was exhaust intake and it was lowered. I loved that car and kept it immaculate.

But regular maintenance was expensive. $550 for an oil change at the dealership. Any additional repairs you needed a second mortgage.

I decided to go back to my roots and went back to Chevy.

Very similar story here: I'm a lifelong GM guy but my last car was an AMG Roadster that was really cool but nowhere even close to the phenomenal 1LE experience. I'd have to spend a cool $150K minimum with AMG to get anything that is even close to being competitive with the 1LE.