[ZX-10R]

Everyone considers price, some have benefited more from the recent massive run up in stocks so $100k is no big seal. Buddy of mine is up $400k in the last year alone

if you're going to lease or only keep a car a short time, you probably don't care about these high stress engines running 20+ psi (and inability to work on it yourself). I would have nightmares about intakes slathered in blowby, loss of compression, and no place to install a catch can.

There needs to be more studies on how fast these high boost engines start to lose compression. 15 years ago 10 psi was the standard, now everyone is running 20+. The LT4 is relatively low stress by comparison (stock of course)

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Everyone considers price, some have benefited more from the recent massive run up in stocks so $100k is no big seal. Buddy of mine is up $400k in the last year alone

if you're going to lease or only keep a car a short time, you probably don't care about these high stress engines running 20+ psi (and inability to work on it yourself). I would have nightmares about intakes slathered in blowby, loss of compression, and no place to install a catch can.

There needs to be more studies on how fast these high boost engines start to lose compression. 15 years ago 10 psi was the standard, now everyone is running 20+. The LT4 is relatively low stress by comparison (stock of course)

Run the study. This is your mark on the world. 10 psi was the standard and now it’s double that. Could it be technological advances.

I had a 13 M5, a 16 M5, 18 M3 and now a 20 x3m. Those things were great roll run runners. Whatever happens in 10 years is not my problem. Good or bad.

[Biscuit.fr]

Just twice the price...

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by Biscuit.fr

Just twice the price...

The point? Maybe some can afford it. And have family and different cars at the same time. These threads always turn into hate. Why can’t we all enjoy our love of speed. Man.

[SFV1LE]

I dont see the "Just twice the price" comment indicating any hate, it's an interesting fact about something that's new in my experience. You used to have to spend well over $100k for a 911 Turbo or M5 to get big power and great handling, and now with the ZL1 it's a bargain. It changes the value proposition for people who can't, or don't want to, spend that kind of money on a car. Now they can have similar or better performance for a fraction of the cost, 5 years ago this was not an option.

Yes, the European cars have better interiors, styling, and extra bells and whistles available, but I'm only interested in raw excitement and track performance so my ZLE fits the bill. I would like a 911 Turbo, but they are so damn expensive now and with track days, skiing and other travel it's hard to justify.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by SFV1LE

I dont see the "Just twice the price" comment indicating any hate, it's an interesting fact about something that's new in my experience. You used to have to spend well over $100k for a 911 Turbo or M5 to get big power and great handling, and now with the ZL1 it's a bargain. It changes the value proposition for people who can't, or don't want to, spend that kind of money on a car. Now they can have similar or better performance for a fraction of the cost, 5 years ago this was not an option.

Yes, the European cars have better interiors, styling, and extra bells and whistles available, but I'm only interested in raw excitement and track performance so my ZLE fits the bill. I would like a 911 Turbo, but they are so damn expensive now and with track days, skiing and other travel it's hard to justify.

Then I misunderstood and I apologize.

[Markoz28]

I have a ZL1 and a BMW 2020 M340I. The BMW is a great daily driver and makes plenty of power to just get around town. I say get both.

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by SFV1LE

I dont see the "Just twice the price" comment indicating any hate, it's an interesting fact about something that's new in my experience. You used to have to spend well over $100k for a 911 Turbo or M5 to get big power and great handling, and now with the ZL1 it's a bargain. It changes the value proposition for people who can't, or don't want to, spend that kind of money on a car. Now they can have similar or better performance for a fraction of the cost, 5 years ago this was not an option.

Yes, the European cars have better interiors, styling, and extra bells and whistles available, but I'm only interested in raw excitement and track performance so my ZLE fits the bill. I would like a 911 Turbo, but they are so damn expensive now and with track days, skiing and other travel it's hard to justify.

My daily’s are Mercedes and Audi and I don’t really find interiors or bells and whistles to be any better in those cars over the ZL1. You can’t even get key fob remote start on German cars because it’s against the law in Germany. I can remote start the Mercedes off the Mercedes Me app but not with the fob.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

My daily’s are Mercedes and Audi and I don’t really find interiors or bells and whistles to be any better in those cars over the ZL1. You can’t even get key fob remote start on German cars because it’s against the law in Germany. I can remote start the Mercedes off the Mercedes Me app but not with the fob.

Uh. You sure? https://youtu.be/c727RjZZE68
2:36.

[FarmerFran]

The new M5 is awesome. The ZL1 is awesome. But they are 2 totally different cars in almost all ways possible.

So if that is the case I suggest your buddy go drive an Audi RS6 and report back. A shitton better than that M5 - well, IMHO

EDIT or an E63s for that matter.

EDIT EDIT - I say all this while spending some other rich dude's money

EDIT EDIT EDIT - ~11:30!

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Uh. You sure? https://youtu.be/c727RjZZE68
2:36.

As I stated, Audi and Mercedes doesn’t due to German law. Couldn’t get it on mine (both 2018s) and was told by dealers that it’s against the law in Germany. I have no idea what BMW is doing. Maybe they are assembling in US? Maybe only sell in US cars? Maybe added aftermarket? Maybe they don’t care? IDK
Moreover, my point was that I haven’t really found Euro interiors and “bells and whistles” to be any better than the ZL1s.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

As I stated, Audi and Mercedes doesn’t due to German law. Couldn’t get it on mine (both 2018s) and was told by dealers that it’s against the law in Germany. I have no idea what BMW is doing. Maybe they are assembling in US? Maybe only sell in US cars? Maybe added aftermarket? Maybe they don’t care? IDK
Moreover, my point was that I haven’t really found Euro interiors and “bells and whistles” to be any better than the ZL1s.

Lol.

[URBAN LEGEND]

[QUOTE=FarmerFran;10957921]The new M5 is awesome. The ZL1 is awesome. But they are 2 totally different cars in almost all ways possible.

So if that is the case I suggest your buddy go drive an Audi RS6 and report back. A shitton better than that M5 - well, IMHO

EDIT or an E63s for that matter.

EDIT EDIT - I say all this while spending some other rich dude's money

EDIT EDIT EDIT - ~11:30!
The new RS7 is fire too.

[19 2SS]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You're right that BMWs (and Porsches) are underrated at the crank. But the difference isn't parasitic losses due to the s/c on the ZL1: The ZL1 is rated at 650 crank hp after accounting for the power it takes to drive the supercharger. It's just that BMWs are underrated. Car and Driver dyno'd an M5 Comp and it made 617 whp. Granted, the M5 Comp is a little more powerful than the regular M5 but the M5 probably isn't that far behind.

Being underrated helps explain why the M5, a 4-door sedan that weighs 4,288 lbs can do 60-130 mph in 8.3 seconds (per C&D) and trap 129 mph in the 1/4 mile while the A10 ZL1 does 60-130 mph in 8.9-9.0 seconds and traps 125-127 mph in the 1/4 mile, despite weighing 365 lbs less, and "supposedly" making 50 more hp.

The M5 is has a lower drag coef. than the ZL1, which may explain why the 60-100 mph times are closer between the two cars, percentage-wise (3.8 sec for M5 vs. 4.0 sec for the A10 ZL1; about 5% difference) compared to the gap widening as speed grows: 100-130 times for the M5 and ZL1 are 4.5 sec and 5.0 sec, respectively (an 11% difference).

That said, have your friend watch the Throttle House M5 Competition video review on YouTube - they do a full review and they said it is numb to drive. It's very fast, but numb.

What do you mean by numb? like not very rowdy? too smooth to feel fast?