[DaveC113]

The diesel truck modders, especially the coal rollers, are mostly to blame. But the acceptance of removing catalytic converters on street driven vehicles is also a major issue and I think that's why COBB was a target. Catless downpipes are one of the first mods many Subie folks go to. People discuss removing cats on car forums regularly, catless exhaust systems are sold in numbers that massively exceed the number of cars used only on track.

I've posted many times that it's selfish and almost sociopathic to remove emissions equipment on street cars, but oh well... this is what we get. This is the beginning, the EPA's position is that cars sold for street use may not be converted into race cars, and that's where it'll end... with EVERYTHING needing a certification that the parts sold do not cause the vehicle to produce excess emissions.

I'd like to be able to say it's just a few rotten apples but it's not, car culture has been going downhill since the Fast and the Furious. This is the inevitable result.

And don't make this political. It's not. The problem is car culture that has blatantly disregarded the law.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

The diesel truck modders, especially the coal rollers, are mostly to blame. But the acceptance of removing catalytic converters on street driven vehicles is also a major issue and I think that's why COBB was a target. Catless downpipes are one of the first mods many Subie folks go to. People discuss removing cats on car forums regularly, catless exhaust systems are sold in numbers that massively exceed the number of cars used only on track.

I've posted many times that it's selfish and almost sociopathic to remove emissions equipment on street cars, but oh well... this is what we get. This is the beginning, the EPA's position is that cars sold for street use may not be converted into race cars, and that's where it'll end... with EVERYTHING needing a certification that the parts sold do not cause the vehicle to produce excess emissions.

I'd like to be able to say it's just a few rotten apples but it's not, car culture has been going downhill since the Fast and the Furious. This is the inevitable result.

And don't make this political. It's not. The problem is car culture that has blatantly disregarded the law.

Well many of these government agencies made dictates, not law. Big difference. And the Supreme Court just struck down the Chevron clause that many of these agencies hid behind while making their dictates. I suspect some of this strong arming will be shot down in court. Maybe not all of it but hopefully enough to dial back some of big government overreach.

[Ventmaster]

I have to +1 on the emission controls being ignored so matter-of-factly. I've got the EOB#'s displayed for the MSD intake and the GM approved CAI. Now I am guilty of removing the secondary cats (grabbed one of Borla's 60606 x-pipes before they got pulled by the EPA, only took about 4mos. before that happened), but I rationalize that their function is to convert the CO (carbon monoxide) to CO2. Both are bad as we know, but it's the primary cats that do the "heavy lifting" removing the nitrogen oxides that create the haze and components of what creates the toxic stuff we call air pollution.
And I think if you're being honest with yourself, you'll admit that raw gas smell that comes with being catless is nasty! I won't add my opinion on how much is too much on noise.
Back in the Eighties when the EPA was really serious about it, you couldn't find store bought, ready-made parts to bypass emission limiting equipment. The fines, I believe will become more common and eliminate much of the choices currently available. Time will tell.
But frankly these cars make plenty of power for street use from the factory and if you're not on the street, you've got no problem modifying.

[JKOR]

Time for a new nation. The free states of America.

[MT-SS1LE]

I have always loathed the EPA and the bureaucrats that run it. Especially the "climate change" zealots currently in place. They have made their intentions pretty clear that they will make anything that runs on fossil fuels too expensive to own or operate in the future. If that means harassing businesses that in the grand scheme of things, contribute nothing to air pollution, so be it. All in favor of their idiotic electric everything push that the public DOES NOT want.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Ventmaster

But frankly these cars make plenty of power for street use from the factory and if you're not on the street, you've got no problem modifying.

Unfortunately, the EPA's position is street cars can't be converted to race cars, which means we'll have NO PARTS AT ALL that are not certified emissions compliant, even for track use exclusively, because the track-use only provision is commonly ignored.

The current car culture that thinks nothing of illegally defeating or removing emissions equipment ruin it for those who have track cars and race cars.

When deciding if what you're doing is acceptable, ask yourself "if everybody did what I'm doing what would happen?" Well, if everyone removed emissions equipment from cars, the increase in pollution would be devastating to our own health and well being. That's a FACT. That's why we have emissions equipment. It's not just to be a PITA and ruin our fun.

It also has NOTHING to do with climate change, the amount of CO2 released is the same whether you have cats or not, it's the NOx and other emissions that are pollutants, it's CO2 that's blamed for climate change.

[Spaceme1117]

**** the EPA and every other government agency.

[havelegs]

*old man yelling at clouds*

[WhiteMale]

Chevron defeat was a real thing, the down side is they won't just pull back their nonsense, you'll have to fight them through the courts the next few years to get there. Similar to ATF being out of control.
The only part I could agree with the fines for Cobb and the other was how flagrant about it they were they tempted fate for years and got smacked down. This wasn't some innocent stuff that they just did wrong without intent.

[Booher]

I'm pretty sure this isn't new. It just got released to the public because they got it all taken care of. Happened a few years ago

[Classic Muscle]

People who mod their engines for power, are ~ .01 percent of vehicle owners, so running cats or no cats really has no bearing in the grand scheme of things. EPA desk jockeys, besides raising CAFE and regulating ICE out of existence, need something else to do to keep themselves busy so they watch Youtube for evidence of tuners running afoul, and then move to shut them down.

Just buy a 60s era car and mod it till your heart's content and unburden yourself from EPA regs.

[GreyGhost702]

Don't say it's not political. It's absolutely political. It's government agencies flexing it's will. As Classic pointed out, it's always been a witch hunt. You're talking about the smallest minority of people. You know what's a bigger problem than people jaywalking on emissions laws? ****ing car theft. What are government agencies doing about that? Shit all. Why? Because they make money on it.

Speaking of The Fast & Furious franchise. It just outlines the political problem further. When people celebrate the outlaws and despise their representatives, there's a problem. And I'm not talking about the street takeover crowd, those people are just clowns better suited to making license plates.

[KingLT1]

^Exactly

A small percentage of car enthusiasts modifying emissions on their performance cars has absolutely little to no impact on the environment. All political agenda BS.

[Dynamical]

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

**** the EPA and every other government agency.

This.


And yes, it is 100% political.