[artsbest]

The 10 speed transmission is a work of art as the video proves.

[SoCal Racer]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

You'll likely burn up 3 clutches before you ever harm that A10. Once you own the car the wait will be over. Also once you see how much the A10 kills the performance of the 6m you'll realize why they put the A10 on hold until they dump the 6m's.

Sounds like a commercial...not sure about the 3 clutches though, sounds like one of those infomercials ...lol. I don't think any experienced car fan will dispute that stock to stock the A10 ZL1 will be faster than a manual in most performance categories...however, I seriously doubt it will be as fast as your commercial advertises. And with any car, who is to say it will stay "stock"...I know mine won't...HP will be added continuously ...as the HP increases, we'll see how that A10 holds up. In speaking to Nismo engineers during my last visit to Japan, I inquired how much horsepower can the stock GTR block take without modification/upgrade and what is the limiting factor to high horsepower numbers in a GTR. Their answer was 750hp max and without hesitation the Auto transmission. As explained to me, the modern day performance automatic transmission is a finely tuned and "programmed" piece of engineering that must be perfectly mated to the application in which it is being used for. You would not place an Auto transmission for a 4x4 in a
Porsche or vise-versa. They need to be set up and strengthened to the proper application. (ie. the A10 in a ZL1 vs a Raptor). If you increase the power of the application, you place yourself out of the scope of what it was built and prepared for and that must also be modified. It is rumored that this is one of the problems GM may be having with their A10 ZL1 application, they may be having difficulties with consistency of the numbers they are achieving in their programming.

A performance Automatic Transmission is not something new to the car world. It has been something that has been growing for a long time. With the more common Autos, the PDK and GTR's Dual Clutch, they have pretty much buried manual transmissions 10 feet under as far as performance goes....but outside of just "going fast", there is something missing when driving an automatic...it really just becomes Playstation Gran Turismo and to me that just takes away the fun of driving, of pushing myself to be better shift after shift...one mile after another...manuals are a part of what driving is truely about. Am I against an Automatic...of course not...it IS the future, for sure...but as we go to an age where everything is Automatic...what is the fun in that?

Autonomous cars are coming either in your lifetime or your children's lifetime, it will be here soon...will you be for that?...or will you actually miss your driving experience? I was teaching my neighbor's kid how to drive the other day. My neighbor is a single mom who works alot, so I volunteered to help since the they are both always super nice. First thing the kid asks me in my old pick up truck is where the push button start was?...lol...I handed them the key and told them they need to stick it into the ignition and turn the key forward...he looked at me like I was crazy. Then I watched him jiggle the shift knob around and he says, where is drive? I explained that he needs to press in the clutch pedal then put it in first gear...then as you pick up speed press the clutch in to shift to second gear...another priceless are you crazy look...lol...ah the future...

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

Without any verifiable data to back up what you're saying about the A10, those predictions are pure speculation. I don't think you'll find many arguments from anyone denying the performance of the A10. That goes for all modern performance vehicles when comparing the manny vs auto. Any objective person can see the 10 speed's performance is flat out ridiculous and GM and Ford are to be applauded.

However, if the M6 is geared anything close to how the manual is geared on the z06, most of the benefits of the A10 will only be seen on the drag strip. On most road courses, you'll only be in 2nd and 3rd gear, so that's a single shift. For daily driving, I would hope there aren't people routinely gunning it to 95+mph to their neighborhood bakery, which would require 2 shifts.

So, for those who really want a M6, I don't think there's a whole bunch being given up vs the A10, especially if the fun factor of personally rowing cogs and/or adding aftermarket power with no reliability issues is of importance to them. Just my opinion though.

Good opinion

I wish the M6 was an M7 though...I could use the potentially better gas mileage for my semi-daily commute.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Fun factor...yes. And I agree with you whole-heartedly...I'm struggling a little with the decision myself. I don't care how fast the A10 is (and it IS)...there's nothing that is quite like shifting your own gears. It's just....fun!

But gears and performance? There is a high level of power under the curve that the A10 is providing the car by keeping the engine up in it's peak power all the time with those short gears. The A10 car will be noticeably quicker around any track because of it.

Consider exiting a corner in a M6 at 3500 rpms in 2nd...accelerate to 6200, shift to third...4800....accelerate to 6200.....

Versus...exiting a corner in the A10 at 5500 rpms in 3rd...accelerate to 6200, shift to 4th, 5400, accelerate to 6200....shift to 5th, 5400...And each shift is so quick, it may as well not even be measured.

I find it quite fascinating how the A10 computers calculate all of that. I wonder if the driver modes help dictate which RPMs to hold at? along with maybe G-force monitors, etc? I would hate to think I would be driving along a normal highway/freeway and it would stick at 5500rpm when I don't need it to... . My gas mileage would be even worse

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by SoCal Racer

I wish the M6 was an M7 though...I could use the potentially better gas mileage for my semi-daily commute.

I'm pretty sure that 7th in the 7 speed is essentially the same as 6th in the 'regular' 6 speed transmissions. They didn't just tack on a 'super overdrive' onto a 6 speed and call it a day. 7th was matched to the old 6th & everything got more closely spaced below that.

Originally Posted by SoCal Racer

I find it quite fascinating how the A10 computers calculate all of that. I wonder if the driver modes help dictate which RPMs to hold at? along with maybe G-force monitors, etc? I would hate to think I would be driving along a normal highway/freeway and it would stick at 5500rpm when I don't need it to... . My gas mileage would be even worse

One of the main inputs is throttle. Hammer it, and the transmission hold the gear longer. Baby it, and it will shift as soon as it can.

And if you're impressed with what a modern automatic with electronics can do ... just think about what it was like in 1939 when the first Hyrdamatic was introduce.

[6spdhyperblue]

FYI

[Crushinator]

Someone in the ZL1 section made this video of the '17 ZL1 and '14 Z28 together. At 6:15 when the rain starts, the Z/28 and ZL1 are about dead even. The ZL1 definitely pulls away on the straights, but the Z/28 catches up in the turns. Damn I wish there was a video of a dry lap in the Z/28.

[ParisTNDude]

What an awesome car...just awesome! I drove the Ring 18 laps from 2003 to 2006 with my C5 Vette and only generally timed my runs at 10 minutes and a little more...lol. My Vette had lots of bolt ons, but I didn't know the track at all. It is a blast and you never get tired of driving it and finding suitable competition...lol.

I noticed in the video that the transmission shifted often at only 61XX RPM and then on occasion 64XX. I wonder why? Just curious.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

What an awesome car...just awesome! I drove the Ring 18 laps from 2003 to 2006 with my C5 Vette and only generally timed my runs at 10 minutes and a little more...lol. My Vette had lots of bolt ons, but I didn't know the track at all. It is a blast and you never get tired of driving it and finding suitable competition...lol.

I noticed in the video that the transmission shifted often at only 61XX RPM and then on occasion 64XX. I wonder why? Just curious.

Just guessing . . . specific gear spacing and possible small amounts of throttle modulation by the driver because he's looking ahead. I noticed this as well, without paying any attention to the 'exact' rpms or the speeds involved.

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

You'll likely burn up 3 clutches before you ever harm that A10. Once you own the car the wait will be over. Also once you see how much the A10 kills the performance of the 6m you'll realize why they put the A10 on hold until they dump the 6m's.

I get that you're a huge AT fan, and from your username I suspect more of a drag racer than a road racer. Which is fine as long as you recognize that others order their priorities differently and for equally valid reasons (SoCalRacer has already listed most of them).


Frankly, I was amazed by this video, and coming from as diehard a MT driver as you're ever likely to encounter either face to face or virtually on sites like this one, that's high praise indeed.

Mechanically hurting the A10 could well be very unlikely, and short of a yet-undiscovered weakness probably far less likely than MT clutch wear or user-caused abuse. But with the possible exception of skip-shift faults, a MT will never be hostage to electrical/electronic gremlins, or get its "adaptive learning" confused, or ever throw strange codes for the technician to troubleshoot. Just saying . . .


Norm

[SoCal Racer]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I'm pretty sure that 7th in the 7 speed is essentially the same as 6th in the 'regular' 6 speed transmissions. They didn't just tack on a 'super overdrive' onto a 6 speed and call it a day. 7th was matched to the old 6th & everything got more closely spaced below that.

The difference may be minute, however, even 1-2mpg makes a difference over the lifetime of your car...and to the gas guzzler tax as well I am sure 7 gears for a daily would be better as the ratios are spread out over 7 speeds vs 6 speeds...or else why would we need an A10 when a A8 would be just fine (j/k)? more speeds have to make some difference. The Z06 did not stop at 6 speeds...

One of the main inputs is throttle. Hammer it, and the transmission hold the gear longer. Baby it, and it will shift as soon as it can.

And if you're impressed with what a modern automatic with electronics can do ... just think about what it was like in 1939 when the first Hyrdamatic was introduce.

In watching the ZL1 video, the test driver was not on full throttle going through some of those slower corners and yet it appears the RPMs were still sticking around 5K...seems like something more than just old school "throttle control"...? Well, I was not around in 1939, but yes I studied it some in engineering school...impressive as well. Thx

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by SoCal Racer

The difference may be minute, however, even 1-2mpg makes a difference over the lifetime of your car...and to the gas guzzler tax as well I am sure 7 gears for a daily would be better as the ratios are spread out over 7 speeds vs 6 speeds...or else why would we need an A10 when a A8 would be just fine (j/k)? more speeds have to make some difference. The Z06 did not stop at 6 speeds...

their excuse was the TR6070 didn't fit in the trans tunnel

say youre cruisng at 1800 rpm with the TR6060, the 7th gear from the base corvette's TR6070 would get you down to 1512 rpm

[Hunt-man]

Originally Posted by Crushinator

Someone in the ZL1 section made this video of the '17 ZL1 and '14 Z28 together. At 6:15 when the rain starts, the Z/28 and ZL1 are about dead even. The ZL1 definitely pulls away on the straights, but the Z/28 catches up in the turns. Damn I wish there was a video of a dry lap in the Z/28.

Quite amazing that an "American muscle car" is so fast. The ZL1 has a lot more power. Do we know what tires it was on? Are they slicks like the Trofeo's? Not too surprising with the new ATS chassis.

[JUSTIFIED]

The Z/28 was ahead by about .5 seconds before it began to rain. Both are great cars. Wonder how the Z/L1 will hold up in hot weather....

[Spyglass]

trofeos are not slicks
Rain makes a world of difference. It is not an apples to apples comparison.
I'm not saying the Z/28 is faster.....I'm just saying based on information we have we cannot conclude either way.

[68camaroz28]

Seems obvious the ZL1 is one fast machine and on larger tracks the HP will reign but on tight tracks the Z/28 cornering will be hard to beat. Guess its fair to say also the ZL1 does not have a base $75K window sticker either. The new Z/28 whenever it debuts and hopefully it will next year is going to be something else cause we all know it will better what the current standard is. Never thought in the 80's we would see this amount of HP and what cars can do today. Amazing!

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by 68camaroz28

Seems obvious the ZL1 is one fast machine and on larger tracks the HP will reign but on tight tracks the Z/28 cornering will be hard to beat. Guess its fair to say also the ZL1 does not have a base $75K window sticker either. The new Z/28 whenever it debuts and hopefully it will next year is going to be something else cause we all know it will better what the current standard is. Never thought in the 80's we would see this amount of HP and what cars can do today. Amazing!

I couldn't agree more.