[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

They spent $5k for about 10hp gain.😆🤣😁
Save your money and just drive stock other than headers, ported TB and such. But I kind of feel those guys didn't know WTF they were doing.🤪


https://www.dragzine.com/features/po...5000-bolt-ons/

Your last line is the key, they did not know WTF they were doing.

Truth is that bolt-ons can help very well on a Camaro SS. My own car with just flex sensor/E85 tune, drag radials on the back, driveshaft loop, a V-Max ptb that did not help, and a drop-in air filter that also didn't help, ran 11.3s in the 1/4 mile. So I know from first-hand experience, that article is way off.

To address the 'no E85' argument some are making, even if I had left 93 in the tank instead of E, my car still could have run 11.5s at that time, still better than they did.

[wnta1ss]

This dollar vs hp thing that is being thrown around is actually misleading. I have done bolt-ons, and also have had a supercharger on my SS, so here is the truth. The supercharger's hp does not mean as much as you think it does until the speeds get up there. The bolt-on setup, being lighter, is more efficient. This is why an SS with base supercharger setup, at best, gets high 10s on the dragstrip, and it's not too difficult to do that with bolt-ons in an SS, despite the hp being lower. Yes I have personally run high 10s with a base supercharger and also with some bolt-ons. To be clear on what a base supercharger is, I mean the standard kits meant for a stock LT1 motor and stock LT1 fuel system, not one that is pullied up, and not adding methanol injection.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

E85 didn't cost me anything extra being I did most of the tuning myself. I get that it isn't really apples to apples but I am just stating what can be done if you are fairly capable of doing things on your own.

The mods all work together to produce the gains. Yes a CAI doesn't do much on a stock car alone, but it makes a lot more difference on a Car that has other mods that increase flow in and out of the engine. CAI also does not show big gains on the dyno because you don't have the same air flow going into the CAI on a Dyno as you would when going WOT down the track or street. Pray has documented and posted all the info needed to make these cars perform.

Let's just go off of standard price for the average consumer who relies on a tuner.

Pray ported IM/TB- 550.00
DSX Flex fuel- 400.00
E85 tune- 650.00
TSP headers- 750.00
Rotofab- 350.00
Budget drag pack- 12-1400.00

That is all you need to have a bottom 11 high 10 second car. Which is 1.5 seconds quicker then a Stock SS for 3500.00 if you do the labor. That is still a solid gain for the investment. I don't bench race Dynos so it doesn't matter to me if the car only shows a 50hp gain. Dynos never won any races on the track or street.

I think the takeaway from the article is that without an e85 tune running e85, your boltons (headers-exhaust, intake, other intake porting) are only going to be about 20% as effective as they could be but can easily end costing a thousand + on their own.

Given their dyno numbers and the numbers from other posters on this forum who have shown dyno numbers between their mods on 93 octane and e85 (with no or nearly no other changes) etc as well as some comparing to stock..

by going almost all the way to e85, you spend most of the money to do so, but only get 1/5th to 1/4th of the results. That can easily shift you into facepalm money spending if you never intend to go that extra step and you did all that for performance.

(and dyno numbers are used for comparisons because trying to compare racing times is way less precise. I can go on youtube and find bone stock 100% ss's doing 11.00 second quarter miles.. So yes, dyno numbers dont win races, but they do make it possible to compare modifications if before and after's are done on the same machine in at least a semi-effective way. That's totally impossible with racing times)

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Pretty sure they change the fuel when showcasing that flex fuel bolton kit/setup.

So not really comparable to normal bolton performance comparisons to stock, since most of the difference comes from running high alcohol fuel, not in the particular bolton replacements.

And even if you trust Pray's testing methodology, he says his preferred cai and dry filter combo is good for 10-14hp vs stock (I assume) and that amounts to an improvement (at wot) of 2.5% assuming just 400hp stock - which is conservative.
Then again, he says oiled version of the filter performed noticeably worse, which doesn't make any sense at all since an oiled filter would have less material and flow better while clean than a dry filter that has to have more material to filter at even the reduced filtration levels that gauze and foam filter perform at vs paper. So while i have no doubt switching to alcohol will get you big gains... i do doubt the conclusions pray comes to when reading their own test data and I'd very much doubt anything in the single digit % differences in a dyno result as being well within the realm of noise

If his bolt on cars are gaining 70 hp on E, they're still gaining 50 on pump 93. He many times posts E and 93 numbers.

[Nightfall ss1le]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I think the takeaway from the article is that without an e85 tune running e85, your boltons (headers-exhaust, intake, other intake porting) are only going to be about 20% as effective as they could be but can easily end costing a thousand + on their own.

Given their dyno numbers and the numbers from other posters on this forum who have shown dyno numbers between their mods on 93 octane and e85 (with no or nearly no other changes) etc as well as some comparing to stock..

by going almost all the way to e85, you spend most of the money to do so, but only get 1/5th to 1/4th of the results. That can easily shift you into facepalm money spending if you never intend to go that extra step and you did all that for performance.

(and dyno numbers are used for comparisons because trying to compare racing times is way less precise. I can go on youtube and find bone stock 100% ss's doing 11.00 second quarter miles.. So yes, dyno numbers dont win races, but they do make it possible to compare modifications if before and after's are done on the same machine in at least a semi-effective way. That's totally impossible with racing times)

The take away on that article is they did a piss poor job at spending their money on that car. As others have said you don’t get more power from e85 than you do from all the other mods combined. That’s nonsense & a little research would show you that. If that’s not enough then go rent an SS & I’m sure there’s plenty of people on here willing to show you how ugly the race would be even on 93 octane.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I think the takeaway from the article is that without an e85 tune running e85, your boltons (headers-exhaust, intake, other intake porting) are only going to be about 20% as effective as they could be but can easily end costing a thousand + on their own.

Given their dyno numbers and the numbers from other posters on this forum who have shown dyno numbers between their mods on 93 octane and e85 (with no or nearly no other changes) etc as well as some comparing to stock..

by going almost all the way to e85, you spend most of the money to do so, but only get 1/5th to 1/4th of the results. That can easily shift you into facepalm money spending if you never intend to go that extra step and you did all that for performance.

(and dyno numbers are used for comparisons because trying to compare racing times is way less precise. I can go on youtube and find bone stock 100% ss's doing 11.00 second quarter miles.. So yes, dyno numbers dont win races, but they do make it possible to compare modifications if before and after's are done on the same machine in at least a semi-effective way. That's totally impossible with racing times)

Those mods are more effective then that on pump 93. As I already mentioned the Drag radials and rich tuning is hurting the numbers. Stock tires and getting the AFR up into the 12.8 range is probably worth 25whp alone. I have seen drag radials eat 10-15whp. So the only way the article in the OP would be apples to apples is to dyno the car with the stock tires, converter, and tune the AFR for 12.8-13.1.


Please go on Youtube and show me bone stock SS cars going 11.0 in the 1/4mi. The absolute fastest time slip I have seen of a bone stock SS is 11.7.

The only thing the OP shows is they did a piss poor job with the car and misrepresented it's capabilities. We have seen 50-70whp gains out of those mods routinely depending on the type of fuel used.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I think the takeaway from the article is that without an e85 tune running e85, your boltons (headers-exhaust, intake, other intake porting) are only going to be about 20% as effective as they could be but can easily end costing a thousand + on their own.

Given their dyno numbers and the numbers from other posters on this forum who have shown dyno numbers between their mods on 93 octane and e85 (with no or nearly no other changes) etc as well as some comparing to stock..

by going almost all the way to e85, you spend most of the money to do so, but only get 1/5th to 1/4th of the results. That can easily shift you into facepalm money spending if you never intend to go that extra step and you did all that for performance.

(and dyno numbers are used for comparisons because trying to compare racing times is way less precise. I can go on youtube and find bone stock 100% ss's doing 11.00 second quarter miles.. So yes, dyno numbers dont win races, but they do make it possible to compare modifications if before and after's are done on the same machine in at least a semi-effective way. That's totally impossible with racing times)

Your takeaway from that article is completely wrong. Those morons reported a strangely-low hp gain with multiple mods done and we are right to criticize it. Let's look deeper at a couple of the parts that these dipshits used, namely, the MSD intake manifold and the long tube headers. We have had a test posted on this forum where the shop bolted an MSD manifold onto an otherwise-stock LT1 with no tuning (so no flex sensor), and it gained 17hp over stock. Another shop test with just long tube headers and high flow cats had reported a 20hp gain. Again, no E85 was used. So your claim that the parts will lose 80% of their effectiveness without E85 is totally false.

[Nightfall ss1le]

^^^^^^^^^

[Nightfall ss1le]

So I finally got my car over to Pray last Friday. 2” TSP headers with X-pipe, Pray ported stock IM/TB, E85 tune & already had a Rotofab CAI installed with the stock tune. On the way home from NC I had to fill up with 93 because I couldn’t find any E85. There was a slight difference in power but it was still noticeable much faster than stock. Final numbers were 469HP & 475TQ. Not crazy numbers but he also said the best stock RWHP he’s ever gotten from a manual on their dyno was 398RW. It was over 95 degrees & humid as hell when I got it done so I highly doubt I would’ve been breaking any dyno records & I’m extremely pleased with what $4K got me. Also my E content was at 69% but I don’t think I would’ve gained much more even if it was at 85%.