[pauly1119]

I would buy something a year old and get the SS 1LE. Nothing against the V6 cars as they are probably faster then my C5 corvette but there is just something about that sound and feel of a V8 that gets me. Same thing with the Porsche, I know they are incredible cars but just not for me.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

The Z06 also came with 50 extra hp (I think), does it also have a wider track or was that the C6 and C7, and the wider tires certainly help. A closer comparison is probably the Mustang GT and PP1, which are in the same class.

Okay, and if you were going to campaign a Mustang GT in F Street, you'd be crazy not to get one with the PP1 package installed. You acknowledge the 1LE is faster, and I will say that it will be significantly faster even if you install the same make/model of tire on both (you'll be installing wider rear tires on the 1LE), due to the other suspension upgrades. But this probably is academic for the OP, since he just said he probably won't participate in autocross events. So...

I would assume someone who intends to do a fair amount of autox and track events would upgrade the tires anyway, so comparing the factory tires for each is kind of pointless.

The base V6 Camaro comes with all-seasons that will perform poorly on track (and in snow/ice), and probably will overheat and chunk to pieces over an extended session. If he gets that car, he will have no choice but to either replace the tires with track-oriented ones or purchase a third set of wheels and track tires. Given the OP's predicted use of all street driving except for maybe one track event each year, and given his intent to purchase a set of winter wheels/tires anyway, he's not going to get yet another set of wheels and tires for that one track event. He's just not. So the savings over a 1LE-equipped new car is going to be cut basically in half just by his having to get a third set of rolling stock for one track event a year.

My position is that just in terms of the OE tires alone, the 1LE is going to let him go straight to the track event without having to purchase a new set of performance tires. It's going to run cooler and the brakes will be much more appropriate for this use. For this OP's intended use, it's a way more practical purchase. This is different than you or me: we both probably enter in a dozen or more events each year and the classing is important for us. And you're in a class that allows any wheels/tires you can fit on the car, along with eleventy-billion other mods (I've been there too!). This OP has a different mindset than we do for his car, I believe.

PS - Your point about the availability of used V6 1LEs is valid. I've been assuming the OP is planning to purchase new, which renders that point moot. But if he's really looking at used Camaros, then yes it's going to be a lot harder to find a V6 or 2.0T with the 1LE package.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

The other things that come with the 1LE seem more like a "nice to have" than a requirement for someone who will extensively track their car. I haven't heard of anyone that has cooling issues with a stock V6 or 2.0T, but I also don't know anyone who extensively tracks their mostly stock car. It seems a lot better than my old Focus ST at least.

For autox, I don't believe the 1LE will be materially faster than the base model if both are on the same wheels and tires. Of course the 1LE comes with wider rear tires, so if you'd stay street class, then that's a significant advantage.

I owned a 2016 1SS for two years and now a 2018 1SS 1LE for two years. Based on my experience I think you're incorrect here.

The 1LE has a better suspension, as has been discussed here, which is going to give you faster times, it also has better tires AND wheels, which are also going to improve times. I don't believe anybody has mentioned the eLSD. That makes a bigger difference than you might think. Much more nimble through the corners. Better brakes means better times, and all those coolers mean you can not only run faster, you can do it much longer.

All those factors are more than just 'nice to have' when tracking.

MT had the figure 8 for a 2018 SS 1LE at 22.9 and for a 2016 SS at 24.1. From my perspective, 1.2 seconds is a big difference.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I owned a 2016 1SS for two years and now a 2018 1SS 1LE for two years. Based on my experience I think you're incorrect here.

The 1LE has a better suspension, as has been discussed here, which is going to give you faster times, it also has better tires AND wheels, which are also going to improve times. I don't believe anybody has mentioned the eLSD. That makes a bigger difference than you might think. Much more nimble through the corners. Better brakes means better times, and all those coolers mean you can not only run faster, you can do it much longer.

All those factors are more than just 'nice to have' when tracking.

MT had the figure 8 for a 2018 SS 1LE at 22.9 and for a 2016 SS at 24.1. From my perspective, 1.2 seconds is a big difference.

Wyzz, the 2.0T and V6 1LE package is not at all the same as that for the SS. On the V6 and 2.0T, the 1LE essentially upgrades the base suspensions and wheels/tires to the non-1LE SS specs. It does not include the eLSd, the MRC shocks, or the the 10/11" wheels and 285/305 tires like it does for the SS 1LE. It's still a big upgrade over the base suspension and 8.5" wheels with 245 all-season tires front and rear, not to mention a big upgrade in brakes and cooling. And instead of $7k like it is for the SS, the 1LE package with the smaller engines is $4500.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Wyzz, the 2.0T and V6 1LE package is not at all the same as that for the SS. On the V6 and 2.0T, the 1LE essentially upgrades the base suspensions and wheels/tires to the non-1LE SS specs. It does not include the eLSd, the MRC shocks, or the the 10/11" wheels and 285/305 tires like it does for the SS 1LE. It's still a big upgrade over the base suspension and 8.5" wheels with 245 all-season tires front and rear, not to mention a big upgrade in brakes and cooling. And instead of $7k like it is for the SS, the 1LE package with the smaller engines is $4500.

Live and learn. I didn't know the eLSD wasn't included for the V6 and 2.0T. In that case I guess there wouldn't be as big of a difference. To me going from the SS to the SS 1LE the difference was obvious as soon as I went around my first curve.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Okay, and if you were going to campaign a Mustang GT in F Street, you'd be crazy not to get one with the PP1 package installed. You acknowledge the 1LE is faster, and I will say that it will be significantly faster even if you install the same make/model of tire on both (you'll be installing wider rear tires on the 1LE), due to the other suspension upgrades. But this probably is academic for the OP, since he just said he probably won't participate in autocross events. So...

He must have posted the no autox while I was typing up my response. Since that's off the table, lap times really don't matter. So then it's up to if the extra cooling is worth it, the brakes certainly are, but I believe those are an option on the non-1LE or aren't all that expensive for the 4 pistons in the aftermarket. Those seem to do OK on the SS, so on a slower/lighter car, they should be fine.

For 1-2 track days a year, it's all certainly nice to have especially if you're going on 90* days, but you can still track the car without it. I know someone who has tracked their base 2.0T with just pads and fluid, and the only issue they mentioned was the brakes were pretty hot towards the end of the sessions.

If money is a non-issue, then why not get it. If, like most people, it plays some consideration, then you have to decide if it's worth it for yourself. Don't take away track time from yourself because you stretched into the payments for the 1LE. Go out and test drive as many combinations as possible. Maybe after driving an LT1 you decide you have to have the V8, they're going to be pretty close in price.

[Rayvan]

I'd get the V6 1LE. Wouldn't it be great to say that you can beat an 800HP Hellcat on a road coarse?

[Silent_H_]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Okay, and if you were going to campaign a Mustang GT in F Street, you'd be crazy not to get one with the PP1 package installed. You acknowledge the 1LE is faster, and I will say that it will be significantly faster even if you install the same make/model of tire on both (you'll be installing wider rear tires on the 1LE), due to the other suspension upgrades. But this probably is academic for the OP, since he just said he probably won't participate in autocross events. So...


The base V6 Camaro comes with all-seasons that will perform poorly on track (and in snow/ice), and probably will overheat and chunk to pieces over an extended session. If he gets that car, he will have no choice but to either replace the tires with track-oriented ones or purchase a third set of wheels and track tires. Given the OP's predicted use of all street driving except for maybe one track event each year, and given his intent to purchase a set of winter wheels/tires anyway, he's not going to get yet another set of wheels and tires for that one track event. He's just not. So the savings over a 1LE-equipped new car is going to be cut basically in half just by his having to get a third set of rolling stock for one track event a year.

My position is that just in terms of the OE tires alone, the 1LE is going to let him go straight to the track event without having to purchase a new set of performance tires. It's going to run cooler and the brakes will be much more appropriate for this use. For this OP's intended use, it's a way more practical purchase. This is different than you or me: we both probably enter in a dozen or more events each year and the classing is important for us. And you're in a class that allows any wheels/tires you can fit on the car, along with eleventy-billion other mods (I've been there too!). This OP has a different mindset than we do for his car, I believe.

PS - Your point about the availability of used V6 1LEs is valid. I've been assuming the OP is planning to purchase new, which renders that point moot. But if he's really looking at used Camaros, then yes it's going to be a lot harder to find a V6 or 2.0T with the 1LE package.

Yeah I think you've said it well. We all definitely have different use cases in mind. Good point about how if I skipped the 1LE and did even one track day, the factory all-seasons would be total garbage.

I was originally looking for used, but it's accurate that the V6 1LE is very hard to find, and honestly not much cheaper than new in the grand scheme of things. So I'd likely go the new route. Money is a concern but not too much.

One dealer warned me that the 1LE comes from the factory with negative camber and will quickly wear out the insides of the tires. Is this true? If so obviously I can get it adjusted, but just something I'd like to know.

I do think the 1LE is special enough that it offsets some of the stigma around a V6. Honestly it sounds fantastic to me, even though a V8 sounds better. I just tested a Mustang Ecoboost, and the sound and not-so-linear power delivery makes me think the V6 is my play here.

Thank you all again for all of your insights!

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

I'd get the V6 1LE. Wouldn't it be great to say that you can beat an 800HP Hellcat on a road coarse?

Holy shitballs, I didn't realize the Hellcat was that bad on a road coarse. I looked it up in lightning lap, and the Hellcat is only a half-second faster on VIR Grand Course, which has some pretty long straights.

[Silent_H_]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

Holy shitballs, I didn't realize the Hellcat was that bad on a road coarse. I looked it up in lightning lap, and the Hellcat is only a half-second faster on VIR Grand Course, which has some pretty long straights.

Haha that's nuts! More importantly, I could use more than 10% of the performance on the street without going to jail.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Silent_H_

One dealer warned me that the 1LE comes from the factory with negative camber and will quickly wear out the insides of the tires. Is this true? If so obviously I can get it adjusted, but just something I'd like to know.

I do think the 1LE is special enough that it offsets some of the stigma around a V6. Honestly it sounds fantastic to me, even though a V8 sounds better. I just tested a Mustang Ecoboost, and the sound and not-so-linear power delivery makes me think the V6 is my play here.

Thank you all again for all of your insights!

I wouldn't worry too much about the negative camber, a couple of track days over the coarse of the tires life will more than even that out. I've been on 2.5* degrees in the front for a few thousand miles and haven't noticed any additional wear on the daily tires. Do get an alignment early though, or better yet, make the dealer do one before you buy it. A lot of people have issues with the factory alignment and go through a couple of tires in 5-10k miles.

I had a long debate on whether I wanted the 2.0T or V6. Ultimately the 2.0T won for it's tunability (is that a word?), but the V6 sounds pretty good, and NA power is always nice.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Silent_H_

One dealer warned me that the 1LE comes from the factory with negative camber and will quickly wear out the insides of the tires. Is this true? If so obviously I can get it adjusted, but just something I'd like to know.

Not sure about the factory negative camber for the v6 1le... the v8 is ~1.5degrees. I've had my car for ~14k miles with about 5k miles at -2.5, and the rest -1.5. I had no weird tire wear. My previous car, a bmw 1 series had -2deg camber for ~60k miles. The tires definitely wear more on the inside, but it's gradual wear across the face. I don't think it significantly affected tire wear. All of these cases i ran zero toe in front, i think toe affects wear more, especially with negative camber.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Silent_H_

Haha that's nuts! More importantly, I could use more than 10% of the performance on the street without going to jail.

That's a big reason I left the modern V8s. After getting a 41 over ticket at the end of an on-ramp, I decided they're too fast to be truly enjoyed on the street. If the 2.0T is good enough for Randy Pobst, it's good enough for me.

[Silent_H_]

Cool thanks guys. The car would get about 13k miles per year commuting, so I'll definitely look into the camber specs if I purchase and then go from there.

I know the 4 can easily be made to be quicker than the 6 but I'm not going to be doing any tuning.