[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by ConcernedFan

How can you not suspect mechanical components when that is in fact the only thing common to all of these failures? They were all Camaros with Camaro braking systems?

I agree that gathering other details is important, but I think other car platforms have gone done similar paths with similar problems (fluid, pad material, vacuum capacity, wheel/tire size compound). But, with so little accompanying data find it impossible to come to any ultimate conclusion.

I'm not saying to stop info gathering, I'm just asking why disregard the obvious common components?

I don't think anyone is disregarding any mechanical components, there are several to look at, but nothing is pointing in that direction at this time.

It could be the MC piston seal are failing and GM releases a recall, we don't know, but nothing is pointing at a suspect component.

If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, but didn't one car lose brakes and they returned shortly thereafter? That would seem to point to something other than mechanical failure. We just don't have enough info.

[ConcernedFan]

Yeah, my two thoughts with the limited info here are that maybe..

1. a combination of things related to high-temp brake fluid. What I mean by that is, the brake fluid is doing its job by not boiling and reaching a higher than 'normal' temperature. Some other component of the system (whether it is a seal, piston, gasket, sensor, spring, something) loses its ability to function normally at a temperature above 400-450 degrees, causing the pedal to floor symptom. Once the temperature returns to normal, normal braking resumes.

Or 2. just a system related issue reset by turning the car off/on again after pedal to floor symptom.

Hopefully more people chime in.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Mountain

If you do some digging into rs4eva's case on the C7 forum, there is a decent amount of information.

As far as Jackie's can, the fluid in that car was old and used in some prior track driving (this is mentioned in the video). In addition, I do not think you can conclude the same "no pedal" as Sam from Jackie's video.

A lot of people confuse "no pedal" with over-heated brake fluid causing a very, very weak pedal. In the sudden moments of things going "oh $h!t" people's concentration typically become less sensitive over true zero pedal and a very, very weak pedal. I've been there, too, in another car, years ago and will admit it scared me to where I wasn't able discern true no brakes (zero; i.e. a line burst, whatever) from completely boiled over fluid. It was fluid and it was due to #1 reaching the thermal capacity of the brake system and #2 my inefficient braking techniques.

In the end, honestly, the only vehicles listed that we can "confirm" the same issue as Sam is the other Camaro owner he spoke to (#4), to which none of us has much details on. The reason I am so active in here is because it is very easy to take someones word on "no brakes" and interpret it various ways, where in fact, most cases are probably people falling into the same category as I a few years ago = exceeding the thermal capacity of the brake system, either by the components altered or by driver technique error or both - often times pride comes in the way of accepting this fact. A lot can be assumed because there are variables...

Completely agree with your summation. Still, i do believe, that mixing extreme high torque pads, with fairly average fluid, no additional cooling and then trying to get the most of the car in a competitive environment is not a good idea. My 2 cents, that's all.

Bottom line, we probably will never know what happened exactly. Apart for the outcome.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by Mountain

A lot of people confuse "no pedal" with over-heated brake fluid causing a very, very weak pedal. In the sudden moments of things going "oh $h!t" people's concentration typically become less sensitive over true zero pedal and a very, very weak pedal. I've been there, too, in another car, years ago and will admit it scared me to where I wasn't able discern true no brakes (zero; i.e. a line burst, whatever) from completely boiled over fluid. It was fluid and it was due to #1 reaching the thermal capacity of the brake system and #2 my inefficient braking techniques.

Very good points. Regarding a ruptured or burst brake line perspective, the car would typically pull to the opposite side briefly. "Good" brakes that get soft and or long as you mentioned is boiling the fluid in the calipers, not pad fade. I haven't seen any of these videos so I cannot speak to the circumstances these individuals experienced. However, it would seem taking an electronic (pre 2019 "Ice Mode") issue out of the mix. The root cause may very well be fluid related. Owing to more aggresive pads, possibly driving style, ambient conditions along with the track demands on a braking system. As well as the ability to shed thermal energy from the braking system.

To date I have hesitated going to an aftermarket pad in a ~3700lbs car capable of very high braking, cornering and acceleration for this very reason. I breifly had issues with RBF 600 boling and soft then long pedal. Switched to SRF with no further issues. These cars are great but you just can't get away from the physics of the situtation. As they say "there are no free lunches" and this certainly applies to these heavy monsters and the incredible limits available.

[ConcernedFan]

and with those replies, I must reiterate a point that Sam made, experienced drivers know the difference between 'pedal to the floor' and brake fade. I have a good feeling the Grattan driver would too be experienced enough to know the difference. Brake fade does not manifest itself with perfectly fine braking in turn 9 then complete failure at turn 1.

There may be two different scenarios being discussed here.. and I'm not so familiar with these cars. Do the C7's and Camaros have the exact same braking systems? ABS, Calipers, master cylinder..?

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Completely agree with your summation. Still, i do believe, that mixing extreme high torque pads, with fairly average fluid, no additional cooling and then trying to get the most of the car in a competitive environment is not a good idea. My 2 cents, that's all.

Bottom line, we probably will never know what happened exactly. Apart for the outcome.

Add in the street-compromised, original equipment-based tuning to the dynamics and safety systems.
*Not saying this is the cause of the issue at hand; just a general view*

[FactoryMatt]

Did anyone ever hear back from Sam Strano on this? Was a cause ever IDd for the other cars?

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by FactoryMatt

Did anyone ever hear back from Sam Strano on this? Was a chase ever IDd for the other cars?

4 year bump?!