[Mountain]

Originally Posted by rotis

You could also run a Hellwig front bar, which is 1.25" x .250"w-

https://www.hellwigproducts.com/prod...t&Model=Camaro

Or, if that's too big for you, run a Strano front bar which is 1.25" x .188"w. (manufactured by Hellwig) The softest setting is around 13% stiffer than the FE4 bar. I've got both of them and have used them for years without any issues with the bushings or brackets. With the wall thickness change, the middle setting on the Strano bar is roughly equivalent to the soft setting of the Hellwig.

Did Strano have a bar out at one time? It isn't listed on his site:
http://www.stranoparts.com/searchbym...352&ModelID=49

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by apexit53

if youve watched my videos i am having large issues with power down oversteer lol. so might be worth a shot!

That struggle is real. I experience it too, as does everyone else who autocrosses this car with the active diff. C7 Corvettes have something similar as well. So you aren't imagining it. I think it's exacerbated by toe links that are too short: we can't get max negative camber in combination with any toe in. I think toe in would help the specific problem of power-on oversteer while cornering, while not hurting steady-state cornering balance. One could experiment with aftermarket toe links that would allow that, but of course that's not legal for any Street class. You can reduce rear negative camber and get some toe in, but that hurts overall rear grip because of reduced camber. So it's a bit of a conundrum.

[rotis]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Did Strano have a bar out at one time? It isn't listed on his site:
http://www.stranoparts.com/searchbym...352&ModelID=49

Yeeeaaaa, it's been available since 2016. His site isn't so current.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by Msquared

That struggle is real. I experience it too, as does everyone else who autocrosses this car with the active diff. C7 Corvettes have something similar as well. So you aren't imagining it. I think it's exacerbated by toe links that are too short: we can't get max negative camber in combination with any toe in. I think toe in would help the specific problem of power-on oversteer while cornering, while not hurting steady-state cornering balance. One could experiment with aftermarket toe links that would allow that, but of course that's not legal for any Street class. You can reduce rear negative camber and get some toe in, but that hurts overall rear grip because of reduced camber. So it's a bit of a conundrum.

if the current proposed rules for STU go through, it could be a fun place for the camaro to compete... other than camC. but might not be able to change toe links in stu class either, i cant remember.

[rotis]

Originally Posted by Msquared

That struggle is real. I experience it too, as does everyone else who autocrosses this car with the active diff. C7 Corvettes have something similar as well.

I haven't autocrossed a SS1LE, but I have autocrossed a C7GS and (obviously) my ZL1 1LE.

I think the diff calibration in the C7GS is complete garbage. Any neutral throttle mid-corner will cause it to tighten up, but then won't release when you lift. You also get really sharp ramp on corner exit that seems to cause snap oversteer. It's just plain bad.

By comparison, the diff in the ZL1 1LE is fantastic. Nice and progressive on power, it doesn't do anything awkward if you carry neutral throttle or apply power too early and need to lift. My only real complaint is that sometimes it's a bit lazy to unlock on corner entry, but with recent setup changes I don't even notice it anymore. Maybe my driving has adapted, but there is really nothing the car does at this point that feels unnatural. I'd like to drive a SS1LE to see what the wackyness is about, I have a hard time imagining it's anywhere near as bad as the C7GS was.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by rotis

I haven't autocrossed a SS1LE, but I have autocrossed a C7GS and (obviously) my ZL1 1LE.

I think the diff calibration in the C7GS is complete garbage. Any neutral throttle mid-corner will cause it to tighten up, but then won't release when you lift. You also get really sharp ramp on corner exit that seems to cause snap oversteer. It's just plain bad.

By comparison, the diff in the ZL1 1LE is fantastic. Nice and progressive on power, it doesn't do anything awkward if you carry neutral throttle or apply power too early and need to lift. My only real complaint is that sometimes it's a bit lazy to unlock on corner entry, but with recent setup changes I don't even notice it anymore. Maybe my driving has adapted, but there is really nothing the car does at this point that feels unnatural. I'd like to drive a SS1LE to see what the wackyness is about, I have a hard time imagining it's anywhere near as bad as the C7GS was.

I wonder how different the ZLE calibrations are than those in our SS 1LEs? FWIW, I feel confident managing it in my car. Of course, both Mike and you are a lot faster drivers than I am, so I'm not sure my experience counts for much.

[TheRealJA105]

Your guys ediffs must really create oversteer because here I am with my front BMR bar being softer than I thought on the middle setting and my rear bar on full stiff with my mechanical diff. Or it's just driving style/feel.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Your guys ediffs must really create oversteer because here I am with my front BMR bar being softer than I thought on the middle setting and my rear bar on full stiff with my mechanical diff. Or it's just driving style/feel.

Running my SS 1LE in all OFF (no TC or Stab - PTM only through eDiff) does feel more "natural" and more like a pure mechanical LS, like with the regular SS (I had a 16 1SS and drive a buddy's 2SS at times).

Originally Posted by Msquared

That struggle is real. I experience it too, as does everyone else who autocrosses this car with the active diff. C7 Corvettes have something similar as well. So you aren't imagining it. I think it's exacerbated by toe links that are too short: we can't get max negative camber in combination with any toe in. I think toe in would help the specific problem of power-on oversteer while cornering, while not hurting steady-state cornering balance. One could experiment with aftermarket toe links that would allow that, but of course that's not legal for any Street class. You can reduce rear negative camber and get some toe in, but that hurts overall rear grip because of reduced camber. So it's a bit of a conundrum.

I've only done a handful of autocross events in my SS 1LE, so what I'm about to say doesn't exactly pose the best comparison (but I have drive my buddy's SS in autox a decent amount of time):
I've run my car at a track that has some pretty tight and technical sections (Grattan T3, T7, T8 & T10) and do not feel any crazy power-on, corner exit oversteer issues even running TC/Stab full off. Actually, I was surprised when I first tried full off TC/Stab on how well the car felt (rotated better and put power down great; same setup, same day, same driver PTM Race vs. all off). I think most of what I noticed was likely due to the eDiff change in performance.

Out of curiosity,

Are you guys running in a PTM setting with TC? When TC is still active with PTM, the car seems to try to/want you to have the steering wheel more-straight before being aggressive with throttle and the eDiff tuning is with this in mind. Because of this, the car can sort-of feel like it's fighting itself and power-down corner exit is not as good in tight/technical situations.

Where are you guys at with rear toe and camber? FYI I'm running very little toe in (~0.1-degree) and -1.5 camber.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Out of curiosity,

Are you guys running in a PTM setting with TC? When TC is still active with PTM, the car seems to try to/want you to have the steering wheel more-straight before being aggressive with throttle and the eDiff tuning is with this in mind. Because of this, the car can sort-of feel like it's fighting itself and power-down corner exit is not as good in tight/technical situations.

Where are you guys at with rear toe and camber? FYI I'm running very little toe in (~0.1-degree) and -1.5 camber.

I'm running all nannies off, and I'm pretty sure Apexit is also. I'm at 1/16" toe in and -1.9 camber. If the toe links were long enough, I'd experiment with more toe in. But I don't want to sacrifice the negative camber - that's just robbing Peter to pay Paul. BTW, I wouldn't say it's "wild" oversteer at all. It's just a little hard to predict when it's coming. I ass-ume that's because it happens when the diff tightens, which varies a lot (the computer bases that decision on a lot of variables). I'd still rather have it than not: the benefits are that the front end works really well on turn-in and mid-corner, and the car can exit corners on the power without really understeering much. You just need to be ready to catch it if it kicks out.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I'm running all nannies off, and I'm pretty sure Apexit is also. I'm at 1/16" toe in and -1.9 camber. If the toe links were long enough, I'd experiment with more toe in. But I don't want to sacrifice the negative camber - that's just robbing Peter to pay Paul. BTW, I wouldn't say it's "wild" oversteer at all. It's just a little hard to predict when it's coming. I ass-ume that's because it happens when the diff tightens, which varies a lot (the computer bases that decision on a lot of variables). I'd still rather have it than not: the benefits are that the front end works really well on turn-in and mid-corner, and the car can exit corners on the power without really understeering much. You just need to be ready to catch it if it kicks out.

Gotcha’

[Badmojo]

Just an update:

BMR customer service was excellent and they took care of me.

I'm back to running the stock sway bars with the BMR end links.

I ran Roebling Road for two days and didn't have any issues, although there was noticeably more oversteer with the factory bars.

I may look into going to a larger rear tire in the future.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Badmojo

Just an update:

BMR customer service was excellent and they took care of me.

I'm back to running the stock sway bars with the BMR end links.

I ran Roebling Road for two days and didn't have any issues, although there was noticeably more oversteer with the factory bars.

I may look into going to a larger rear tire in the future.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I take it you mean they gave you a full refund? I just want free new Delrin bushings!

Weird that you got more oversteer from the stock bars...

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I take it you mean they gave you a full refund? I just want free new Delrin bushings!

Weird that you got more oversteer from the stock bars...

Not necessarily imo. Firstly, it is a ZL1 so its factory balance is likely quite different vs a non 1LE SS factory balance. Secondly, softer bars will deliver more grip and perhaps a slightly difference balance as well.

[TheRealJA105]

Forgot to update the thread. Bushings still good after another TNiA at Pitt Race last week! One more TNiA there next week then on to NCM for the TT Nationals.