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Old 02-13-2020, 11:59 AM   #15
DorkMissile
 
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I really do think that the only big flaw with the factory system is that they pull the vacuum from the valley cover and not the valve cover. I would image with the current PCV valve / port being so close to the crank and cam (the two things inside the engine that are turning the oil into vapor) is that the oil doesn't have much of a chance to settle down and run down into the engine.

I plan on actually not using the OEM PCV valve when I put my engine back in - I will cap it, and route the center line from the PCV "box" that is on the water pump to the back side of my catch can. I haver a valved can (MM Wild) and will use their valve as the PCV
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
I think you are just looking at the can itself, it is the AN fittings, hardware, Black anodizing, high quality hose and mounting solutions that drive the price up, I can take a 50.00 catch can and make it a 350.00 catch can pretty easy with the above parts.

You also have to consider gaining access to the PCV valve itself, where you may need a 75.00 adapter just so you can install a catch can.

We sell a ton of Moroso Billet aluminum Catch can, with stainless mounting brackets and fuel hose at 159.00 if you don't mind the brass fittings they work great.

Start adding all the pretty parts and that price can easily double or triple.
Well, I had a look into adding the costs of high quality AN fittings, hoses, mounting brackets, Etc. and still everything together the total does not exceed ~ $80-90 including can. This is a far cry from 250-350. Everyone is entitled to invest in what he believes is right for him -Idea was to raise the price-to-performance ratio subject related to this component and hearing the variety of views.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DorkMissile View Post
I am not advocating one way or another in regards to catch cans, but starting a thread to complain about it is a bit thoughtless

I mean - you could come up with your own catch can business concept and run your business & marketing any way that you want, or choose not to use one at all.
I am surprised that you see this thread as a complaint, since it is not meant to be anything like it - just to make this point clear.

I simply wanted to raise this issue to the air and get comments and a discussion about how members view the value of the expensive solutions Vs. relative inexpensive ones, which basically function quite similar.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:42 AM   #18
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^ take the time to compare an ebay can with the competition, see if you can trap the same amount of oil, see if the manifold or TB is similar in cleanliness, compare aesthetics look as good..
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:37 AM   #19
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^ take the time to compare an ebay can with the competition, see if you can trap the same amount of oil, see if the manifold or TB is similar in cleanliness, compare aesthetics look as good..
At the end of the day, 98% of these things are made in China at the exact same factory, imported in bulk, then have an individual company name laser etched on the side.

If everyone had a "patented technology" you'd have lawsuit after lawsuit for infringement.

These cans are not rocket science. The same type of system is used on air compressor lines, and similar, to clean the air going through them.

You're paying extra for the name. Period.

Am I saying this is true in every case? No!
Again, these air strippers aren't really that complicated a piece.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:39 AM   #20
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^ take the time to compare an ebay can with the competition, see if you can trap the same amount of oil, see if the manifold or TB is similar in cleanliness, compare aesthetics look as good..
good advice..

I will add that IMO a catch can on FI is completely superfluous.

Since I don't have a PVC, my intake is oil-free for ZERO dollars. The OEM already has a catch can on the atmosphere side that makes use of the two valve covers, a drain to the oil pan and a vent to the intake (which I vent to atmosphere). The PVC has zero functionality at or near wot, zero functionality on boost. i.e. when you really need it, it ain't working.

Now if we want to talk about how functional a can is, the number one thing would be the location of the vent, not the design of the can (longer the better).

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...hoCYwsQAvD_BwE

Vent FAR more than silly PVC and is cleaner than any catch can to intake vacuum. Install time 2 minutes.

Catch can for $27.00
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Res...67412374&psc=1

I hate fooling around with braided lines for silly things like vents etc. Sure if you have the time and money and the car is a show queen.
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Last edited by oldman; 02-14-2020 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:06 PM   #21
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We will step in and clarify some of the false claims made here.


First, yes, 98% of all cans are made in China and may vary slightly in appearance but have the same ineffective internals.


These can be bought for $15 or so if in bulk, and if you look, some will have the "big names" already stenciled on to them. But, lets compare what the different designs of the internals do, and instead of asking opinions and getting all the conflicting opinions from those that are not engineers and do NOT understand proper crankcase evacuation. This is easy to do, but does take some time.


To test ANY catchcan, no matter what the seller claims, you will need 2 cans. One should be one proven to trap 95% plus of all that enters it not allowing more than droplets past and still ingested. So, this video shows this in EVERY detail, and anyone can duplicate this test. In this video, which the tech that put this out, was a promotional video for Moroso when the tech just showed the Moroso was catching oil (see his earlier videos). The best is to start at the 17 minute mark to see the final results, and then go back and watch the entire video documenting exactly how it is performed. All stages must be done equally and fairly and documented every step. When you do this, you quickly see 98% of all cans, even with the "big names" are mostly worthless installing on a GDI engine as they cannot tolerate any ingestion, and the next most effective design comes in at far less than 50%.


It does not matter what a can catches, it is what is let past that matters, and our patented design is unmatched period. And we state this publicly as well as offer the challenge test.





Now, lets look at why most of these cans, no matter the price, don't trap more than they do.


Here is an example of a common made in China for $15-16 and branded with any of dozens of brand names. Trap only app. 15-18% of what enters them and the rest is still ingested doing little to protect your engine:



and what do we find when the light paint is removed from the top?



The funny thing is the instructions on what is the inlet and the outlets, they have them backwards so that makes it even less effective. We added the checkvalves. And this only hold 3 oz capacity.


Now the one from the video:





So if you follow this well known brand that some promote without telling you how poorly they work (again, watch the video showing the results) just to sell you one, here is why. Notice there is no designated inlet or outlet. The side you use as a inlet the media quickly becomes saturated and then the outlet side does as well. As the incoming vapors and the outgoing vapors both mix together in the can, and the media is tight against the openings, it is impossible for this design to trap much more than 20% allow the rest to still be trapped. And just looking in your intake is hardly a scientific way to judge a can, you need to be able to see first hand how much gets past the can.


And here are the results of another popular brand that charges a premium. Their results on the left, our E2-X design on the right.



Again, not even close.


Look inside the average can and try this. Get a clean washcloth wet to simulate the media in those cans. Place it to your mouth and suck on it. What happens? Water is sucked right out. Same happens with the oil and that suction is far stronger than a mouth on a washcloth. Look inside ANY can and see, all other designs the incoming oil laden vapors mix with the outgoing supposedly cleaned vapors. So it is impossible to trap much more than 20% of the total with far more still being ingested instead of trapped.


And again, We challenge ANY other can design to take the challenge conducted by an unbiased 3rd party and see. Not a small disparity, its not even close.


Then look at our R&D. NO other brand has worked with the industry labs as we have for in depth testing and design. In fact the Worlds most respected Lubrication lab spent 2 years and a substantial amount of money to purchase a fleet of GDI powered vehicles and done as much testing. And this is a benefit we never expected. As we are one of the ONLY can systems that provide FULLTIME evacuation (suction on the crankcase) oil stays cleaner longer as this long term test shows. This oil has over 13,000 miles on it. The engine is a twin turbo GDI engine making over 20# of boost. Read the lab techs comments (many here use Blackstone and can verify with them) on how the oil has stayed this contaminant free for this long, and the latest test is at 20k miles and looks as good. This you can also test and prove yourself instead of blindly following opinions without fact. Get an oil analysis done at 5k miles on your car. Then change oil and install our system, and do the same at 5k miles, and 10k miles, and if you want, 15k miles and you will see that same brand oil remain cleaner and more contaminant free at 15k miles than any other "catchcan" design at 5k miles.


So, our E2-X has close to 16oz capacity VS the average can at 3-5 oz.


Our Ultra system at over 20 oz. and our premium systems are designed for the GDI engines. And they do come standard with our billet checkvalves, Cleanside separator, and AN fittings.


So avoid the drama and the haters and the dishonest claims made by others just to sell and perform the tests yourself and see first hand.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:50 PM   #22
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I too would like to hear from customers (no vendors) with catch cans and how much oil they are catching between oil changes. I watched your video and the vast if not all of the extra fluid looks like water mix on foaming oil that is all condensation heat and shaking. I don't see any advantage at all saying your design catches more water. Now if we are talking oil, it looks like your can is catching about 10% more oil, not 85%. The stock system catches no water vapor. Rough guess lets say your system catches 90% of the oil vapor, the Moroso catch 82%. Venting captures 100% of both oil and water.

Venting from one or more areas relieves crankcase pressure at or near WOT and on FI systems under boost (this forum) the catch can PVC flows NOTHING. The factory clean side is basically an oil/water separation system anyway, an elegant one at that.

Not knocking your setup. looks boss, but IMO it is more eye candy and for FI, we need venting under boost or bad things happen.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:49 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Elite Engineering View Post
We will step in and clarify some of the false claims made here.


First, yes, 98% of all cans are made in China and may vary slightly in appearance but have the same ineffective internals.
FYI - the Chinese check valves shown in the picture of the Chinese catch can are the same ones that came with my Elite system and failed miserably in a short amount of time for me
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:17 AM   #24
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I too would like to hear from customers (no vendors) with catch cans and how much oil they are catching between oil changes..
For myself I started with an Elite E2, but decided to switch to a MM Wild. Not really about the brand, but for three reasons. It had a integrally built in check valve (a good valve, with a ball and spring installed inside a stainless steel orifice), it has the capability to accept much larger volumes of air (it can accept up to a 3/4" -12 hose), and it is capable of venting if induced to positive pressure.

My previous setup had the check valve fail when the cheap little rubber flapper in the valve that got sucked up into the hose between the can and intake manifold, which not only plugged the vacuum source, it sealed the entire system entirely.

At the beginning of last year, I installed a Novi 1500 S/C, and when I was having the car tuned on the dyno, my tuner had noticed that one of the hoses from that goes from the valve covers was bulging from the pressure. Luckily the seal between the factory catch can box and the drain that goes back into the oil pan was relieving pressure (and leaking oil) or I probably would have pushed the front seal out.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:45 PM   #25
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I would be interested at seeing a ball design that can vent, so this is like a spring-assisted PCV? I also like the idea of a bigger pipe.

Lastly so the center hose to the factory catch can, on a Procharger it goes to a hookey fitting on the air filer. since you system was building pressure where does your setup go? Or was there that much pressure that the center breather hose was just overwhelmed?
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2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:38 PM   #26
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The only thing I learned from the video is that the clown needs to drain his primary can more often.

Of course it's going to blow 2 oz out if it's full.

That being said, the Moroso can filtering media sucks.

The RX can is going to do better because it has a bigger collection cup for a long drain interval.

Also, you're going to get a ton of condensation out of the cans since the water vapor has a place to condense, especially in cold weather.

What you are looking for is the filtering efficiency and a big collection cup (or a gravity fed auxiliary tank) to hold all the condensates between draining.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:21 PM   #27
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I would be interested at seeing a ball design that can vent, so this is like a spring-assisted PCV? I also like the idea of a bigger pipe.

Lastly so the center hose to the factory catch can, on a Procharger it goes to a hookey fitting on the air filer. since you system was building pressure where does your setup go? Or was there that much pressure that the center breather hose was just overwhelmed?
Two pics below - first one is of my catch can setup on the engine as it sits today - still not back in the car. The small fitting is for 3/8" hose, but it has the ball check valve inside it. The other port is for a -10AN fitting. I believe you could pull the AN adapter out and put in a -12 O-ring fitting. I will be running a -10 Hose from that fitting up to the -10 nipple on the middle of the "PCV box"

The other picture is the top of the can with the breather filter off - what is hard to see is that internally inside the air filter is a large rubber disc that is allowed to float inside the filter. If the can is under vacuum - the disc sits down on top of the can and seals it off. If the can is under pressure, it pushes the disc up so it can vent
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:34 PM   #28
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oldman, why would you want pressure to build and vent instead of pulling full time suction so pressure can never build in the first place? Can you show us any examples of Professional Racing that vents? (besides the stock and superstock classes that do not allow the advantages of an evacuation system).


And the ones that watched the video, did you not see Moroso only trapped drops that got past the Patented design we use? And our design trapped more than the Moroso AFTER it did its best? Water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter is what we trap. NONE of that should be left in your crankcase or ingested in the intake air charge.


And look inside the MM can....how can that trap even half of what enters it if it is nothing but an empty canister with brillo pads inside? Can anyone discuss the technical aspects?


And so all understand how the test is conducted, here are the steps:


Start out with both cans to be test clean of all oil residue.


Install our design AFTER the can you feel does a good job.


Run the car at least 1000 miles (2000 is better for a more accurate average of driving).


Drain each and document how much they each caught.


Clean each of all oil and gunk, and install our design i, and the other can second. Drive the exact same style for the exact same miles. Drain both again. The MM lets more through than it traps, and our design caught AFTER it did its best, then in reverse, the MM only trapped droplets in comparison.


So who here touting a MM would conduct this test with NO cheating or bias? We will provide our can for the test as long as it is conducted fairly and accurately.


And again, Venting pressure that is allowed to first build is NOT evacuating. Evacuating is a suction source pulling (sucking out) the contaminants and never allowing pressure to build in the first place.


And finally, our billet checkvalves are guaranteed to hold over 100# of boost and not fail:
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/categories.php


These have been out for a year now and must be used on turbo or centrifugal SC applications on the intake manifold side.
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