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Old 02-11-2020, 12:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87 View Post
Agreed, good price, best performance and they've gone on to improve the fitment of the product and address the steering shaft bolt.

These csp ones look good too, seems the fitment and price are also pretty desirable.
those chps look like they just fall into place based on the video. I pulled the starter and motor mount on the passenger side to get my 1 7/8 Kooks in. Others have apparently done it with out removing anything, but I don't really see how. The fitment on the Kooks is perfect, just a bit of a pain to get the passenger side in. At least it's pretty much a one time thing so not a really big deal.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:17 AM   #30
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because somewhere back in time somebody told them a story of the waves merging at the collector and creating a negative pressure wave to help evacuate the gass from the other tubes AND so goes the story if the tubes are equal length meaning the exhaust pulses would arrive evenly spaced you would get further benefits. Turns out the story is true on inline engines and flatplane 90 degree V8, but any NORMAL v8 that you know of the pulse waves occur at all different times, hence the 1965 289 Mustang went to a tri-Y and so did GM in the LT1 for the Camaro only. The old OHV Ford 5.0 went to shorty unequal length. So yep equal length headers work just not on normal 90 degree V8 unless you want to pass tubes under or over the engine.

This pulsation overlap is so bad that the GT500 went to a supercharger vs twin turbo and it was because the engine is normal crank V8.
I agree with this. Also, I don't think any typical long-tube header has long enough primaries to really be effective at resonant scavenging in the typical RPM range of common V8 production engines. I've discussed with an OE powertrain engineer, and he says that the big advantage of long-tubes on a cross-plane V8 is to get the collector point further away from the exhaust valves so that the individual exhaust pulses don't interfere with one another as much. What can be effectively tuned somewhat is the collector volume/length. There are some old Vizard writings that discuss that. It may not be possible, though, on a production car where one wants to keep the rest of the exhaust joints in stock/near-stock locations, though.

The other obvious advantage is less overall restriction. One advantage of flat-plane V8s (or any engine that has even firing on its exhaust banks) is that it can run very-short-primary headers without as much interference of exhaust pulses from port to port. Nobody is tuning primary lengths for resonant tuning anymore, especially with turbos. Everyone is trying to get turbos and cats as close to the port opening as possible for various reasons.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:23 AM   #31
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those chps look like they just fall into place based on the video. I pulled the starter and motor mount on the passenger side to get my 1 7/8 Kooks in. Others have apparently done it with out removing anything, but I don't really see how. The fitment on the Kooks is perfect, just a bit of a pain to get the passenger side in. At least it's pretty much a one time thing so not a really big deal.
I pulled the start (please disconect the battery). In all installs I recommend wrapping the starter, I also wrapped the header tubes right next to the starter. I do NOT recommend wrapping the whole header. I have heard of guys pulling the valve cover and putting the headers in from the top. I don't remember if I undid the engine mount (2 bolts easy pease).
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:35 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BlackbeastSS2 View Post
Question for CSP Andrew,

On my past 2016 Camaro SS kooks Long tube headers I had a set of ACCEL Extreme 9000 Ceramic Spark Plug Wire Sets 9070C. The number 3 plug on the ceramic plug wire would rest on the header, u can’t bend the ceramic part. Have you tested any plug wire sets like these to see if they fit?

Thanks
Stock wires actually have less resistance then most aftermarket. CSP designed these headers to work with stock plug wires for that reason.






Quote:
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I would think they're all comparable but I've been told by two respected sources that the tsp 2" reign supreme.. idk by how much or if there's a negative that comes with the extra tid bit of power.
Pray tested 3 different set of headers and Speed Engineering made the most power by a slight amount that he chalked up to being variables. Price, fitment, and quality are the only 3 reasons to consider when shopping.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:54 AM   #33
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1300 hundo for headers? These seem nice but wow, thats some high dollar stuff.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:55 AM   #34
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Due to the odd fire nature of the engine and kind of tight fit, I like the Billy Boat E
Tri-Y Design:
https://www.bbexhaust.com/shop/chevy...der-fdom-0365/

But who really knows, the Tri-Y tubes pair ports furthest away from each other, so there is no primary port flow interference with the pulse (fist merge) between the paired ports, the second merge pipes are much larger, so think of this as "extending" the merge point further down via gradule flow expansion. So at the point two ports are flowing at the same time the effective cross section is twice as big.

I will note the current thought in Honda B and K engines setup is intefereance merge Tri-Y where the pipes are selected to purposle put two exhaust pulses together. The thought is to keep the energy in the pipe (pressure and heat are energy) and there really is no "reflective" extraction wave on a closed exhaust system, as such waves are generated at the exit point to atmosphere. No way it works (interferance merge), except it does and my current 275 engine HP B engine NA 2.1 liter uses such a header to good effect.
https://www.ebay.com/p/19017008225?i...BoCAegQAvD_BwE

all inline 4 firing orders are 1-3-4-2, you can see that 3 and 4 are paired. The exhaust pulse of 4 will really start hitting when 3 is tapering off, so you get one really long and strong pulse. Can't work, I know right?

Sorry for the threadjack. I'm merely talking theory, not like I'm selling headers. The Complete Street look to have nice bends and a gentle merge collector and that is basically where any potential power gains will come from. What I do really like is the nice straight carry from the exit of the head before the first bend, there is a least one cheap brand that really bends the header tube too soon. Sure you can get more room to fit the tubes in but I like a good 1" or so before I bend the tube. I also like the ball connection as this exhaust is basically one piece and there is some minor movement at this ball which is good.
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Last edited by oldman; 02-12-2020 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:22 AM   #35
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Andrew said on his channel that they actually picked up a little power vs the kooks on the treel1. I havent saw a video showing the dyno or graph though.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:34 AM   #36
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able to use the stock wires is a plus. I have modified stock wires on my 1 and 7/8 Kooks, I made a total of two brackets to loom the wires and modified 3 total stock wires as shown in the picture. Not really all that hard, but how many shops are going to do it? This header looks to work well with stock wire. Once again, not hard (I finally got bent ceramic boots), but shops ain't gonna do it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Stock wires actually have less resistance then most aftermarket. CSP designed these headers to work with stock plug wires for that reason.








Pray tested 3 different set of headers and Speed Engineering made the most power by a slight amount that he chalked up to being variables. Price, fitment, and quality are the only 3 reasons to consider when shopping.
I saw that, that was quite a while ago and I believe they were 1 1/8s not 2 inchers being compared iirc. Since then Pray himself has recommended to me to go with tsp 2" for the most power on a pretty recent FB post, as has Jeremy Formatto. Those were the two well respected sources I was referencing. Jeremy told me in person that tsp made more power than arh consistently.

So while price, fitment, and quality are in your opinion the only things to consider that doesn't make it a fact or rule. Others may value the power gains from one over the other, however minimal or not. Tsp provides both value, good fitment in the latest batches, and apparently the most power.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:41 PM   #38
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1300 hundo for headers? These seem nice but wow, thats some high dollar stuff.
+1
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:01 AM   #39
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1300 hundo for headers? These seem nice but wow, thats some high dollar stuff.
I understand. The idea here was to make the best header possible, and we have put in a substantial investment to make that happen!
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:28 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87 View Post
I saw that, that was quite a while ago and I believe they were 1 1/8s not 2 inchers being compared iirc. Since then Pray himself has recommended to me to go with tsp 2" for the most power on a pretty recent FB post, as has Jeremy Formatto. Those were the two well respected sources I was referencing. Jeremy told me in person that tsp made more power than arh consistently.

So while price, fitment, and quality are in your opinion the only things to consider that doesn't make it a fact or rule. Others may value the power gains from one over the other, however minimal or not. Tsp provides both value, good fitment in the latest batches, and apparently the most power.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:07 AM   #41
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I'll be very interested in them once some cats come in with them.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:17 AM   #42
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because somewhere back in time somebody told them a story of the waves merging at the collector and creating a negative pressure wave to help evacuate the gass from the other tubes AND so goes the story if the tubes are equal length meaning the exhaust pulses would arrive evenly spaced you would get further benefits. Turns out the story is true on inline engines and flatplane 90 degree V8, but any NORMAL v8 that you know of the pulse waves occur at all different times, hence the 1965 289 Mustang went to a tri-Y and so did GM in the LT1 for the Camaro only. The old OHV Ford 5.0 went to shorty unequal length. So yep equal length headers work just not on normal 90 degree V8 unless you want to pass tubes under or over the engine.

This pulsation overlap is so bad that the GT500 went to a supercharger vs twin turbo and it was because the engine is normal crank V8.

Here is a barrel of snakes header for the GT40 in an effort to create an equal pressure wave header:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ford...BKAVFwq5ek8hM:



tri-y by Kooks:https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-into-1-s.html
So does this mean there really isn't any scavenging at all? I always ASSUMED that those who lost a bit of torque down low in the rpm's did so potentially because the tube size was too large for the amount of air moving through it at those RPM's and therefore losing velocity which then reduced scavenging which then reduced torque. Then once engine speed/air volume increased the greater efficiency of the header tube size and design would "kick in". Just always wearied of hearing "you need back pressure for torque" argument. I am probably way off.
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