[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by fastball

Ok, I really have to ask before I buy this car, if the catch can is really this important why wasn't one designed and built for the car from General Motors?

...

It does...the LT1 in the Camaro comes with a factory can equipped on the "dirty" side which drains the caught oil directly back into the oil pan.

But my concern is this....can someone address this for me...

Is the concern the "clean" breather side (drivers side) that should have a catch can added? I just don't see a lot of value in adding a 2nd can to dirty side, unless the GM solution just plain sucks. That would surprise me, as I read some stuff from the person that designed it and he said it was a big deal to him.

Originally Posted by Mishimoto

...

Below is an image of what we collected within 1100 miles.



Quite substantial!

...

Thanks
-John

Was that caught on the clean breather side??

Also....wouldn't a car driven hard (such as you guys would've been doing, especially with dyno testing and such) cause more pressure, thus creating the blow by you are seeing. Not downplaying the importance, but I'm going to assume someone who put 1,100 miles of normal driving, isn't going to see the same amount of oil as you guys. Right or Wrong?

[bbrown450]

Originally Posted by E-Ray

I agree, is there anyone who has installed an aftermarket can that can testify to its usefulness.

I put an Elite can on my C7/LT1, checked the can and emptied when ever I changed my oil, usually a 1/2 cup in the can.
You will never convince the rest of the world about the validity of the need for one, it is up to you to weigh out the merits as there is all kinds of logic on the need for these ( "if we needed one Chevy would have put one in, wether dirty or clean side...or both"). I have literally seen pages of discussions on the C7 forum with a crap load of links, and there are some pretty smart guys over there, it usually degrades to "name calling", but plenty of food for thought.For every article on why you need one...there seems to be one stating it is a myth.
I just ordered mine.. had I known they were available sooner, it would already be in.

[bbrown450]

Originally Posted by Mishimoto

Agreed! Prevention of oil entry into the manifold is an excellent way to prevent valve buildups and retain engine power over time.





Below is an image of what we collected within 1100 miles.



Quite substantial!

Our direct-fit kit addresses the PCV circuit of the engine, which we've found to produce a good amount of fluid. The factory LT1 includes an AOS system for the breather circuit of the CCV system, yet the PCV-side is not addresses.

For more information about the factory system and the development of our kit, check out the thread below.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433058

We are currently running a discounted pre-sale (Details within page 3) with our first batch of orders shipping out next week.

I'd be happy to answer any questions!

Thanks
-John

You have one less in your inventory.....

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by bbrown450

I put an Elite can on my C7/LT1, checked the can and emptied when ever I changed my oil, usually a 1/2 cup in the can.
You will never convince the rest of the world about the validity of the need for one, it is up to you to weigh out the merits as there is all kinds of logic on the need for these ( "if we needed one Chevy would have put one in, wether dirty or clean side...or both"). I have literally seen pages of discussions on the C7 forum with a crap load of links, and there are some pretty smart guys over there, it usually degrades to "name calling", but plenty of food for thought.For every article on why you need one...there seems to be one stating it is a myth.
I just ordered mine.. had I known they were available sooner, it would already be in.

no name calling or anything. im not questioning whether the can catches oil, and its ability to reduce coking.
i would like to see the extent of our OWN coking issues on a stock oem motors.
I see vendors posting pictures being like, look see black oil...bad.
I can't really find any documentation on how gen v motors in general are doing with coking. its seems enough time has passed where we should have some high mileage examples. so i am hoping some would agree we are at a milestone to revisit.

however probable that there is coking issues, are there any pictures of gen v engines with coking issues. i can't seem to find ANY.


The gen v has been out for 2.5 years. i would want to see how they are doing as far as coking goes.

Whenever i look at the C7 forums all i see is pictures of VWs, Audis, and BMWs.

[SSport16]

I would love to see some real world results from the average owner as well.

[Tushar]

Any vendors for the LGX catch can??

[Omar1]

Thank you for this. Very informative for a noob like myself.

[lcarney1977]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Guys, even if a catch can only caught a few table spoons of oil in between oil changes, for the low cost of adding one, not adding one makes no sense...every little bit helps with direct injection.

Are they easy to put on or does a shop have to do it for you? I'm new to this catch can stuff thx..

[FlightSoftware]

From 30 minutes of googling, it looks like cars / engines that have a problem with this with direct injection were able to reduce / eliminate the problem with a firmware update.

Just changing when the valve opens / closes can have a big effect on how much oil / unburned fuel the back side is exposed to. I'm on phone so don't have links handy, but my takeaway was that it was probably a problem with early engines and probably not so much now. I'm not in any way an expert, but one of the articles (I'll try to find it) had a case of an engine that was clogging up that stopped after receiving new software that changed the timing of the valve opening / fuel injecting.

Anyone seen anything else like that?

[Mishimoto]

Originally Posted by Nicul15

That is a lot of oil! Do we know that the oil will turn into coking or just provide top end oiling?

I have over 60,000 miles on my 2014 silverado im tempted to see what the valve bowls look like.'

are there any images of intake bowls from high mileage gen v engines?

Great question. Unfortunately we have not had our Camaro long enough to capture data in terms of actual valve buildups without a catch can. Previous experience and fundamental information gives us extremely high confidence that this amount of oil will indeed make an impact on valve buildups. We’ve definitely seen the impact on other vehicles, one being the brand new Mazda Miata. Our test subject showed evidence of light buildup after just 3600 miles.

It is likely we will have our catch can setup installed for a little while longer for data collection. Once complete, we can certainly explore removing the kit it to see the impacts of oil entry over time.

Originally Posted by bhavyas

At what intervals do you keep checking how much oil is caught by the can... Also, I am assuming all that oil goes to the dump,is that correct... Sorry I am ignorant of this stuff...

We recommend users check the fluid level after the first 1k and 2k miles. This should provide a baseline for how frequent the fluid will need to be drained. We recommend emptying the fluid when it reaches the baffle (or before). With what we’ve found with our first drain of the can, emptying estimates should be between 3,000 and 5,000 miles. This will vary based on your environment and driving style, but provides a rough estimate.

Oil can be returned to the crankcase or it can be disposed. Most folks end up dumping the oil once they get a look at the contents. In the winter months, condensation will also build up, which I would not want to place back into the engine.

Originally Posted by jaymsu

I was waiting for a proof that Gen6 actually needs one. I thought factory took care of this issue, but after reading your thread, I was waiting to see how much you collect oil on your test unit.
You got me with that picture. [IMG]file:///C:\Users\JMARST~2\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]That's a lot of oil for 1100 miles.
I'm going to order one right now.

Thanks! We were quite surprised as well. This is about equal to what we saw with both the Focus ST and the S550 Mustang GT. Our other direct-fit application definitely produced fluid, but not quite this amount. We are going to continue putting miles on our test vehicle for future evaluation.

Originally Posted by pinoyscorpion951

Yeah, I just ordered a Mishimoto catch can right now also after seeing this. Literally just a few minutes ago.

Thanks for the order!

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Guys, even if a catch can only caught a few table spoons of oil in between oil changes, for the low cost of adding one, not adding one makes no sense...every little bit helps with direct injection.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by fastball

Ok, I really have to ask before I buy this car, if the catch can is really this important why wasn't one designed and built for the car from General Motors?

If this is an inherent problem with all direct injected engines, shouldn't there be something from the manufacturers to correct this?

What happens over time if a catch can is not installed? Will I have check engine codes and a poorly functioning intake system? Does it decrease engine life? Smoking/burning or using oil or carbon build up in the valves?

I plan on keeping my car well over 100,000 miles. Probably closer to 200,000. It will be my everyday driver and I don't intend on buying another new car any time soon after buying the Camaro.

This whole catch can stuff has me leery about DI engines in general.

I'm used to just changing the oil every 7500 miles and the engine just runs to well over 200k miles with no issues and nothing else to worry about.

It is a good question. As discussed earlier, GM did address the breather ports by providing an AOS system. Why they did not put a similar system on the PCV circuit, we do not know. Could be the added cost, packaging within the engine bay, etc.

The impact of this amount of oil passing through the manifold has yet to be fully quantified for the LT1. How long will it take for the valves to see substantial buildup? How much performance will I lose, and in what time period? I can’t provide a concrete answer to these as there are far too many variables in play. I can say that other DI vehicles have experienced buildup causing CEL illuminations and degraded performance.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

It does...the LT1 in the Camaro comes with a factory can equipped on the "dirty" side which drains the caught oil directly back into the oil pan.

But my concern is this....can someone address this for me...

Is the concern the "clean" breather side (drivers side) that should have a catch can added? I just don't see a lot of value in adding a 2nd can to dirty side, unless the GM solution just plain sucks. That would surprise me, as I read some stuff from the person that designed it and he said it was a big deal to him.

Was that caught on the clean breather side??

Also....wouldn't a car driven hard (such as you guys would've been doing, especially with dyno testing and such) cause more pressure, thus creating the blow by you are seeing. Not downplaying the importance, but I'm going to assume someone who put 1,100 miles of normal driving, isn't going to see the same amount of oil as you guys. Right or Wrong?

Typically we see a high majority of fluid making its way through the PCV-side of the system. Breather or make-up lines from the valve covers do not normally produce as much fluid (or any in some cases). Obviously this will vary from one vehicle to another, but this is our experience after designing such kits for numerous different models.

We are still evaluating the factory AOS system to see if any changes or additions need to be made. Our goal here is to eliminate as much oil entry as possible. Our initial findings with the PCV circuit were substantial enough for our team to take action immediately.

Actual accumulation will vary on environmental conditions and driving style. Typically you see additional fluid if a vehicle is not regularly reaching operating temperature. The 1100 mile testing we conducted was not entirely “normal”. We had several dyno pulls in that mix, and I imagine our employees were not lazily cruising around for the entire duration (We are gearheads after all). As noted above, we will keep evaluating the collection amount as well as the breather circuit.

Originally Posted by bbrown450

I put an Elite can on my C7/LT1, checked the can and emptied when ever I changed my oil, usually a 1/2 cup in the can.
You will never convince the rest of the world about the validity of the need for one, it is up to you to weigh out the merits as there is all kinds of logic on the need for these ( "if we needed one Chevy would have put one in, wether dirty or clean side...or both"). I have literally seen pages of discussions on the C7 forum with a crap load of links, and there are some pretty smart guys over there, it usually degrades to "name calling", but plenty of food for thought.For every article on why you need one...there seems to be one stating it is a myth.
I just ordered mine.. had I known they were available sooner, it would already be in.

Thanks for the information BBrown!

Originally Posted by bbrown450

You have one less in your inventory.....

Thanks for the order!

Originally Posted by SSport16

I would love to see some real world results from the average owner as well.

We will be shipping out our orders next week. I imagine within the next 3-4 weeks a few of our pre-sale customers will post up their collection results. At least we hope they do!

Thanks!
-John

[Mishimoto]

Originally Posted by lcarney1977

Are they easy to put on or does a shop have to do it for you? I'm new to this catch can stuff thx..

For a PCV kit on the SS it is quite simple. The valve is accessible from the top of the engine bay. It is a matter of installing a few bolts to attach the catch can and bracket, and running the lines to the appropriate location. I would imagine an install time of less than 30 minutes is very possible. We will be putting together a detailed installation video soon to help guide users through the process.

Thanks
-John

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by FlightSoftware

From 30 minutes of googling, it looks like cars / engines that have a problem with this with direct injection were able to reduce / eliminate the problem with a firmware update.

Just changing when the valve opens / closes can have a big effect on how much oil / unburned fuel the back side is exposed to. I'm on phone so don't have links handy, but my takeaway was that it was probably a problem with early engines and probably not so much now. I'm not in any way an expert, but one of the articles (I'll try to find it) had a case of an engine that was clogging up that stopped after receiving new software that changed the timing of the valve opening / fuel injecting.

Anyone seen anything else like that?

this supports studies published by GM. a VVT engine can change overlap(valve opens / closes) with a firmware update.

[Blacksapphire]

Does the order come with all necessary items to install?

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Nicul15

this supports studies published by GM. a VVT engine can change overlap(valve opens / closes) with a firmware update.

Still won't totally stop it...thus why all the coyote guys run them. I had my VVT tuned on mine, and still would pick up some oil in the catch can, and that engine wasn't even direct injected. A catch can is cheap insurance, why some choose to argue their validity makes no sense (not saying you, in general). If you don't want to add one, fine, but that doesn't mean they don't help, especially with VVT and direct injection...