[Stefano]

The quickest muscle car magazine test time of an RPO muscle car was for a 1971 Mustang Mach 1 Super Cobra Jet 4 speed, with the solid lifter 429. Only one such car was ever tested as all of the other tests were either automatics or std Cobra Jets.

Interesting note that the late John Lingenfelter and his brother Charlie’s first official race car was a 1968 Oldsmobile Ram Rod.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Here is some more

SuperCars 70 1/2

70 Boss 302 Mustang 13.50 103

This has to be with headers open, and slicks, drag tune. Car and Driver below more accurate for a "show room stock test".

Originally Posted by rocket403

Hi Performance Cars Oct 1967

Any Royal Pontiac... we know is a fully blueprinted ride at a minimum. Know cheater, so we can toss any road test out as "show room stock".


I found the ram rod test...finally.
Car Craft 1968 August Coupes De Grace by Bob Swairr
Stock the RR 350 (car equipped with 4.66 ratio) did a 14.45 at 99 MPH. Headers, flipped lid, drag tune, slicks and it did 13.94@100.50 5400 RPM limit due to lifter pump.
The had to shim the lifters to get 13.85 at 101.50 MPH at 6200 RPM shift.

Set of mag wheels too.

So even the "stock" test was done with dealer installed 4.66, the article also has the E/Stock build, mainly weight reduction at 13.27 @104.76 MPH The 455 was doing 12.97 at 108.17 MPH. but these are near Super Stock Builds.

[rocket403]

I think you need to realize that with all the tests that were done back in the day and maybe even today there may be some minor tweaks that will be or have been done to the cars before or during the testing to get the 1/4 mile times and that for a bone stock test even with these minor changes it is still a stock setup. If not then all the tests from the 60's or 70's even today are not able to be excepted.

this is a case in point

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/vint...est-1967-1968/

[oldman]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I think you need to realize that with all the tests that were done back in the day and maybe even today there may be some minor tweaks that will be or have been done to the cars before or during the testing to get the 1/4 mile times and that for a bone stock test even with these minor changes it is still a stock setup. If not then all the tests from the 60's or 70's even today are not able to be excepted.

this is a case in point

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/vint...est-1967-1968/

I think that is an accurate statement. Also since many runs were at Palmdale they were altitude corrected. All well and good but these cars were traction limited so they would NOT have performed as well as indicated at sea level, because altitude corrected times does not account for the loss of traction. I will say a complete strip prep, open headers and slicks on aftermarket mags is just a tad over minor tweaking...

To the article. Yep my 440 Dart (complete with 340 air cleaner pie pan) was, of course, a 340 with a distributor in front relocation kit. the Mopar performance Dana 60 was a 7 and 1/4 out of a six banger, you ain't seen of them eh? doing it for weight and friction... The aluminum dual plane with mfg shaved off and painted orange was "stone stock". My tag line used to say there are only two kinds of racers, cheaters and loosers which one are you?

[rocket403]

My Challenger is stock with a factory Mopar Cold Air intake resonator delete and a tire Pzero
It's Stock.

The Cutlass is all cheater 403 w 350 heads crank intake forged pistons 200r4 2800 stall 373 posi I just say it is a wormed over 307

[smokinzx14r]

Originally Posted by Red Hot ZL1

My first car was a '68 442. Top speed of 45mph. A 16 year old (me) tore the engine out and rebuilt it. It was then surprisingly fast. A very good friend had a '70 GS Stage 1. Both stock, tuned, and automatics, I never had any problems out running him.

My second car was a '70 340 Duster, 4 speed. I am not sure if I still have the time slips (Green Valley Raceway in Dallas) but I did get it down to the very low 13s. 3x2 carbs, Dana 60 rear, L60x15s.

My third car was (still own) a '67 442, cam, headers, carb, L60x15 road racing tires. Beast of a car and handles like a battleship. I ran this car in the 1/8th and it ran regular high 7s - low 8s.

As I grew up around '60s muscle cars, I am very familiar with Camaros (SS big and small blocks), Z24, and SS RS, Mustangs (GT (427), Mach 1, and Boss), SS Chevelles (big and small blocks), Novas, AMX (really impressive car), Road Runners, Super Bee, Darts, Dusters, and a Daytona Super Bee.

None of those cars compare to our cars of today (handling and reliability).

I loved racing at Green Valley , I miss those days ..

[oldman]

Originally Posted by rocket403

The Cutlass is all cheater 403 w 350 heads crank intake forged pistons 200r4 2800 stall 373 posi I just say it is a wormed over 307

I have a Olds question, when was the last time an olds engine was offered in a 2dr body from the factory? I have a bit of trivia, the 4 speed Firebird 4 bbl sold only in Hawaii and CA 1976, even if you ordered a 400 cid… dilvery day came with a Chevy 350.. can't say I was disappointed. My dad gave it to me when he was tired of 4 speeds (mint)... loved it. I think the auto birds came with an olds 403 (would have liked that too). Anyway so many people tell me that never happened but my family ordered and owned one, 4 speed 4bbl bird (not trans-am)

[rocket403]

1988 Cutlass Classic

The last good Olds engine was 84 after that they changed the heads and went with a round port style that was not good to build, and would require a older style head to take a aluminum intake

442 307 Still used the better heads as well as optional 180hp 9 code engine on regular Cutlass

[rocket403]

307 was offered in various large GM cars till 90

[oldman]

these are all "low blocks" right, 350 deck height? So does a 5 or 6 head bolt right on? Does the w30 exhaust mainfolds bolt on. sorry I'm just know about Chevy, Ford, AMC, and Mopar.

[DFW1LE]

My first car was a 67 SS 396 Chevelle built by Motion Performance, not stock but would eat everything on the street. Used to ride around with M&H wrinkle walls. My next car was a 68 Dodge Dart GTS auto with 340. It felt like a pedal car compared to the Chevelle.

[rocket403]

307 and 350 share all the same parts so heads could interchanged, but it would need to be built to take it. Big block heads could be used on a small block as well bolt holes would need to be enlarged, I have 69 #5 heads and 69 350 crank in my 403 had to enlarge bolt holes on the heads because 403 use big block style heads

[oldman]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

My first car was a 67 SS 396 Chevelle built by Motion Performance, not stock but would eat everything on the street. Used to ride around with M&H wrinkle walls. My next car was a 68 Dodge Dart GTS auto with 340. It felt like a pedal car compared to the Chevelle.

IMO as noted above, with my 440 Dart, the only car that I would actually see at the local beach race, that would have any hope of winning against me would be a 396 in it (usually a Nova). It was a faster ride BUT, it was a much harder combination to launch on street tire. Sorry where I am wrinkle walls , clearly out of the realm of what a young man would drive around on a daily basis or show up for the midnight drags. Now 40 years later, well I do see people at the local parking light gatherings with 00 drag radials.... these guys don't race either, they are show cars. I don't race either now, as there is absolutely no hope of using the power on a normal road...……. NONE.


but back in the day I did have M&H on steelies too.. just not on the street. A 440 .030 over ported heads, .509 cam headers is a 500 HP build with a flat torque curve. You need a pretty big cam in a 396 to beat that and the 396 will have a much peakier curve. Usually any Chevy would be 300 lbs heavier too. Like I said the 396 done right was probably faster... just way harder to actually launch on N50s... Track and slicks.. there is always somebody faster and that is the lawyer with money to burn.... no some college kid.


Did motion change cam or were they running the 375 HP cam? (not like that was small.. about 450 HP with headers??? ).

[oldman]

to follow up. In Day One by Schorr, the Buick GS that did low 13s was professionally tuned, which can mean upto and included a blue printed top end, head mill, thinner head gaskets just like the way Royal Pontiac prep their cars (and many others).

I did find two statements about 340's into the 13s.
Ronnie Sox states in Super Stock Magazine his race car as delivered (he is sponsored) did a 13.98, I believe it was a 3.91 gear 4 speed Barracuda.

The other 13.98 was a Dodge sponsored event with fully prepped cars at willow springs. I going to have to toss all off the list as they are more ringers vs what the press gets or the condition one would find the car at the showroom.

So Cobra from 12.2 to 13.2 (Motor Trend just got the two Cobras times mixed up). GS low 13 gone. That leaves LS6, 440 6 pack, and 426 as probably the fastest Muscle cars and the Cobra not really a muscle car but at 13.2 the fastest realistically in the late 60s, early 70s. The Vette not really a muscle car with 427. Lastly Zl1 and L88 Camaros but hard to say as the factory 2.25 exhaust and SINGLE muffler sucked and the only low 13 second test I could find has them putting the Z/28 over the counter dual chambered exhaust on the car (I think form memory with capped headers).

Close but who knows, Olds 455, Pontiac 455 and / or Ram Air IIs or IVs.

Clearly with headers the large cam Ram Rod (high 12s) and L88 / Zl1, both large cam BB, would add 60 to maybe even 80 HP. As both the RamRod and the Camaro based BB had log manifolds. In contrast Dodge for example had great iron manifolds, so did Buick, Olds, Pontiac and even AMC. So these three engines in specific really benefited from open headers, the Camaro more so due to the factory single muffler.
I'll get a chart soon. Maybe this top 50 list can finally be correct.