[rcoe]

So hit up the track tonight.

first run did 11.1 @ 135 with quite a bit of wheel spin on launch, had a 2.0 60ft.

next run started in 2nd did a little better burnout. Still had some spin off the line, but I did not have to get totally off the pedal like the first run. still need to come off the line better. I have a newer set of 305 Nitto 555rII but have not found a way to hook off the line with them.



My best last fall was 11.1 at 131. Really the only thing I changed was having King work me up a tune. I think low 10's are easily possible if I can get a better launch.

But might have damaged my trans on the last run. Once again spin off the line but it hooked real good and felt very strong on the top end, but driving back to the pit lost all forward and reverse power just came to a stop. Shut it down and fired it back up and I could drive for about 2 minutes before it just would not move. No codes, noises or smells will drive for a minute or so then refuse, restarting will allow for another minute or so.

slip from the last run. I think the mph shows I am making good power just having difficulty putting it down.



Now to find what I might have damaged.

[cjperformance]

Yeah, there's a lot more potential there for sure. With a 135 trap you should do low to mid 10s easy. Traction looks like part of the issue there.

What was the DA during your run?

Also, was there any prep/glue on the track?

I dont want to be a downer, but I feel like something is off with your build with a stage 3 cam... i would have thought youd trap higher, but depends on DA.

I ran 10.8@131 w/1.8 60' on my build with 4.13 pulley (approx 9 psi) at something like -200 DA. Ive got a stock cam, heads, bottom end, etc... 1.8 60' was due to tq mgmt yanking power and applying brakes due to undersized front tires, so i should have been able to do better 60'. I doubt im anywhere close to 750 whp.... MAYBE 600-620whp on that build, guessing close to 700whp now. (Just a guess).

Im fully expecting to go mid to low 10s now with 3.7 pulley at approx 11 psi, maybe 135 trap. Difference in power is obvious between the two pulleys + port.

So long story short... if you dont have good track prep, getting a good 60' and ET will be challenging, but i would think your mph should be higher.... what pulley/psi are you running?

Not sure about your stalling issue. Is it feeling like its going into neutral, or is the engine having tq mgmt issues?

Maybe your tranny was slipping during the run and you burned up some clutches? Id check trans fluid condition and level first.

Sorry for your troubles, suck when theres a lot of gremlins to chase down.

[rcoe]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Yeah, there's a lot more potential there for sure. With a 135 trap you should do low to mid 10s easy. Traction looks like part of the issue there.

What was the DA during your run?

Also, was there any prep/glue on the track?

I dont want to be a downer, but I feel like something is off with your build with a stage 3 cam... i would have thought youd trap higher, but depends on DA.

I ran 10.8@131 w/1.8 60' on my build with 4.13 pulley (approx 9 psi) at something like -200 DA. Ive got a stock cam, heads, bottom end, etc... 1.8 60' was due to tq mgmt yanking power and applying brakes due to undersized front tires, so i should have been able to do better 60'. I doubt im anywhere close to 750 whp.... MAYBE 600-620whp on that build, guessing close to 700whp now. (Just a guess).

Im fully expecting to go mid to low 10s now with 3.7 pulley at approx 11 psi, maybe 135 trap. Difference in power is obvious between the two pulleys + port.

So long story short... if you dont have good track prep, getting a good 60' and ET will be challenging, but i would think your mph should be higher.... what pulley/psi are you running?

Not sure about your stalling issue. Is it feeling like its going into neutral, or is the engine having tq mgmt issues?

Maybe your tranny was slipping during the run and you burned up some clutches? Id check trans fluid condition and level first.

Sorry for your troubles, suck when theres a lot of gremlins to chase down.

Weather was just about perfect, mid 60's with no humidity. Track was prepped and seemed pretty sticky.

I would launch just off idle and as soon as I came off the line would spin. You can see from my log I had to get almost completely off the throttle, but when I would get back in it she hooked very good.

Wish I knew exactly how it was built, was just given the basics for cam was stage 3 BTR and assuming it was built for boost engine should be 10.5. I was going to get the full build sheet last Fall when I was going to have them upgrade my fueling but then they went out of business. So I am stuck not knowing until something blows up and I need to open it up.

Upper pulley is 3.85 griptech and looks like I made around 11lbs last night.


Wish I could have got more runs in, might have been able to get better but there were about 40 kids running their little dragsters that ate up quite a bit of time.

Trans fluid was brown but did not smell burnt.

Here are the logs.
2nd run is the 10.7 run.
lastrun is the one before the trans started acting up.

[cjperformance]

I put in 2nd gear after the water box, bring it up to about 50 mph and hold for about 5 seconds, then let off the brake and roll out while on the gas for about 1 second.

I tried a 2-3 second burnout at slower speed before too, but it wasnt enough.

Ill take a look at the logs when i can get to my tuning comp for sure. Love looking at other data for comparison.

[s346k]

is it normal for a 750 whp blower car to back half 27 mph?

[cjperformance]

Not exactly sure whats normal, but thats almost exactly what mine did on 9 psi. Around 26-27 mph. About 103-104 at 1/8th and 130-131 at 1/4, but i am thinking i was more around 620 whp.

I think rcoes tranny was slipping personally, but havent looked at the logs yet.

The 8 speeds have a big disadvantage too because of that tall 4-5 shift, really a bog at the top end unfortunately. Gotta push things hard in 4th to get in the power band for 5th after the shift. So a 10 speed might do better on the back half.

[KingLT1]

27-28 back half is about normal.

The cars trap speed is up 4-5mph just cleaning some things up in the old Strictly performance tune. But it's still conservative on 18 degrees of timing. I was hoping for more, but I didn't put any more timing in it because he is approaching fuel limits on E50 as is. Honestly it also wants more octane for more timing. The compression seems pretty high on this combo. Now if he decides to run the meth on low or do Port Injection we can feed it more beans. I imagine another 4-5 degrees of timing puts it around 140 which isn't horrible for a full weight streetcar on a radial.

The log Rcoe sent me shows 4th gear map peaks at 180kp @6400 rpm then tapers to 167kpa by 6700 rpm. 160-170kpa out the back door in 5th gear. Converter is locked by 3rd gear.

Either way 4-5mph increase on pretty much the same timing as old SP pump/meth tune is definitely going the right direction. This is the first 1/4 outing since last fall, so haven't had a ton of data to go off of.

[cjperformance]

Oh, no doubt, King. Definitely not intended to be a critique on your tune. Best practices... don't blow up your client's car. Be conservative, esp on a setup with a few known gremlins.

Looks like from the two logs, there were two different tunes run. I suspect one was Kings (secondrun) and the other was Ricks (lastrun)? I recognize some things in the lastrun log that makes me think it was the RC tune.

G/CYL airmass on the run with what I suspect was King's tune look really good. Higher than what I'm getting, so that falls in line with what King said about wanting more fuel and timing. MAF lbs/min however were close to my own readings when you take into account the PI math on mine. That's the missing piece I was referring to about him being cammed and running close to my anticipated non-cammed setup. Much more potential there for sure with the right supporting pieces.

Hard to tell on the (suspected) RC (lastlog) tune because I don't know off the top of my head how much was subtracted from tq model and/or MAF etc... for meth inj, but the log shows lower G/CYL as I would think would be expected with a heavy shot of meth. THAT... or something was really off that last run.

In any case, was primarily looking to see if there was anything funny going on with the trans... nothing jumps out at me, but there is a parameter that you can log that is trans slip. As opposed to TCC slip. With the lack of forward movement he spoke of, would like to see if that trans slip param is high, indicating internal slippage. I think it takes the input shaft and output shaft difference, and also the particular gear to see if trans itself is slipping.

The TCC slip part of this looks normal, unlike mine

Would like to see a log where the actual "shutdown" occurs, with that trans slip param being logged. Just a suspicion, but we need to rule out the trans given he said it sounds like it's freewheeling (paraphrasing from another thread maybe) when this occurs.

[KingLT1]

You are good...I didn't take it as a critique. Honestly, I am fine with being critiqued anyway. The more I can learn the better!!

I would think if the trans was slipping you would see it in the rpm and mph log. The transition point will not look like a sharp drop off(cliff like) on the gear change?

[rcoe]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

The 8 speeds have a big disadvantage too because of that tall 4-5 shift, really a bog at the top end unfortunately. Gotta push things hard in 4th to get in the power band for 5th after the shift. So a 10 speed might do better on the back half.

I did really notice this on all the runs, it screamed thru 4th and when it shifted it seemed to loose quite a bit of that pull.

[rcoe]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Oh, no doubt, King. Definitely not intended to be a critique on your tune. Best practices... don't blow up your client's car. Be conservative, esp on a setup with a few known gremlins.

Looks like from the two logs, there were two different tunes run. I suspect one was Kings (secondrun) and the other was Ricks (lastrun)? I recognize some things in the lastrun log that makes me think it was the RC tune.

G/CYL airmass on the run with what I suspect was King's tune look really good. Higher than what I'm getting, so that falls in line with what King said about wanting more fuel and timing. MAF lbs/min however were close to my own readings when you take into account the PI math on mine. That's the missing piece I was referring to about him being cammed and running close to my anticipated non-cammed setup. Much more potential there for sure with the right supporting pieces.

Hard to tell on the (suspected) RC (lastlog) tune because I don't know off the top of my head how much was subtracted from tq model and/or MAF etc... for meth inj, but the log shows lower G/CYL as I would think would be expected with a heavy shot of meth. THAT... or something was really off that last run.

In any case, was primarily looking to see if there was anything funny going on with the trans... nothing jumps out at me, but there is a parameter that you can log that is trans slip. As opposed to TCC slip. With the lack of forward movement he spoke of, would like to see if that trans slip param is high, indicating internal slippage. I think it takes the input shaft and output shaft difference, and also the particular gear to see if trans itself is slipping.

The TCC slip part of this looks normal, unlike mine

Would like to see a log where the actual "shutdown" occurs, with that trans slip param being logged. Just a suspicion, but we need to rule out the trans given he said it sounds like it's freewheeling (paraphrasing from another thread maybe) when this occurs.

You are good.

Yes the last run was a Rickytune that was setup as more of the drag race tune. I am running a full shot of meth on it. Honestly not a big fan of this tune, he does something odd with the TC lockup(like it coming on only in 8th or something) and the rest of the shifting. This last run was also the last time the trans worked good. It was 2 minutes after this run that the trans started acting up. I have only run it once since he finished it and now I am kinda wishing I hadn't, did 3 pulls on King's tune with no issues.

This log is from yesterday with the car on the lift, I was just watching the tcc slip. When first fired it in drive with brakes applied the tcc slip would be the same as idle rpm requested and within a minute or so the tcc slip would steadily go down. And if I brought up the rpm while still fully braking initially the tcc slip would rise with rpm but then steadily go down. This was all done with the car in the air while waiting for the trans to warmup so I could check the level and fluid condition.

Not sure if my thinking is right on this but would think in drive with brakes locked the tcc slip should be the same as the input rpm.

Will do some digging in HPtuners to enable all trans parameters.

Thanks guys.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

You are good...I didn't take it as a critique. Honestly, I am fine with being critiqued anyway. The more I can learn the better!!

I would think if the trans was slipping you would see it in the rpm and mph log. The transition point will not look like a sharp drop off(cliff like) on the gear change?

yeah, good point.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by rcoe

You are good.

Yes the last run was a Rickytune that was setup as more of the drag race tune. I am running a full shot of meth on it. Honestly not a big fan of this tune, he does something odd with the TC lockup(like it coming on only in 8th or something) and the rest of the shifting. This last run was also the last time the trans worked good. It was 2 minutes after this run that the trans started acting up. I have only run it once since he finished it and now I am kinda wishing I hadn't, did 3 pulls on King's tune with no issues.

This log is from yesterday with the car on the lift, I was just watching the tcc slip. When first fired it in drive with brakes applied the tcc slip would be the same as idle rpm requested and within a minute or so the tcc slip would steadily go down. And if I brought up the rpm while still fully braking initially the tcc slip would rise with rpm but then steadily go down. This was all done with the car in the air while waiting for the trans to warmup so I could check the level and fluid condition.

Not sure if my thinking is right on this but would think in drive with brakes locked the tcc slip should be the same as the input rpm.

Will do some digging in HPtuners to enable all trans parameters.

Thanks guys.

yep, I agree. With brakes locked and no rear wheel movement, trans input shaft should have no rotation because it should be "locked" to the rest of the drivetrain. So slip would need to be the same as engine rpm or else it would/should act like letting out the clutch on a manual at a dead stop with the brakes applied.

So unless something is just weird with how TCC slip is reported under these conditions, instinct is saying something with the trans.

If it weren't 9,000,000,000,000 degrees out (even hotter in my garage)... I'd go grab a log on my own for comparison But honestly this should be the same as sitting at a stoplight, not moving. TCC has to slip... if the engine isn't getting bogged down, then it means something is spinning in the trans or rear end that shouldn't be.

Kinda seems like clogged trans filter. I had a riding mower once where the vent in the fuel cap got clogged. It would run for a few minutes until the vacuum got too high in the tank and wouldn't pull fuel any more from the tank. Let it sit a few minutes and it'd run again. Or just take off that cap... but whatever....

Thinking same concept (but not due to vacuum) where on startup it gets enough fluid flow, but maybe something cuts it off, like fluid starvation due to clogged filter or something... bad pickup tube? IDK... just shooting in the dark...

But if your log shows trans slip (not TCC slip) under those conditions, I'd prob pull off the pan.

Obviously I'd put Kings tune back on there and retest to make sure its not due to some kind of funky tune issues.

[cjperformance]

So at a dead stop (or on rack with brakes applied), here's what it should look like.

Now the trans slip value WILL INCREASE just prior to a shift taking place. I think the math used to render the data point assumes the shift takes place earlier than it actually does, or at least right as it starts, so in the other graph, you can see the trans slip value spike right as the shift starts, then zeros back out once the shift completes. This should be normal on the graph.

As a side note on my graph, that fuel pressure dip sucks... it's not out of fuel, it just the fuel pumps fighting over control a bit. I only occasionally see that, not consistent. Tough to weed that out :(