[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That's your view of the world. Most businesses and financial institutions would (do, actually) lump India in the same bucket as Brazil, Venezuela, and most parts of the African continent. Emerging economies.

That view of the world does nothing to stop pollution or global warming. But as long as the US is the only "bad guy" that pays the price and takes the hit, all is well. Nothing will be solved giving the worst offenders a free pass.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by 90503

That view of the world does nothing to stop pollution or global warming. But as long as the US is the only "bad guy" that pays the price and takes the hit, all is well. Nothing will be solved giving the worst offenders a free pass.

the idea is to turn the US into a socialist country.the rona virus is making it awfully easy to make people dependent on government for free handouts.unfortunately nothing is free and our grandkids will pay the price for our inability to buckle down and get back to work.hopefully the wont be speaking chinese when they are our age.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Mountain

The Alpha-2 chassis is not all that different than the Alpha-1. I’ve looked under an Alpha-1 ATS and CTS and an Alpha-2 CT5... everything looks nearly identical (especially CTS to CT5). The Alpha-1 Camaro was the latest (newest) Alpha-1 chassis developed and it’s more sports car/high performance designed.

The Camaro’s Alpha-1 chassis will be a good one for quite some time, I’m positive on that.

That's interesting. To me, that gives more weight to the idea of the gen 6 Camaro going to 2026. Maybe they've even counted on the Camaro for an economies of scale to lower the cost for this first generation CT-4. Another poster in another thread has the view that it's really Cadillac that needs the Camaro. That makes sense when you see ATS sales. https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/cadi...sales-numbers/ They were always less than the Camaro.

[digitalfutur]

Good to see that Camaro may get 3 more years out of the excellent Alpha platform, after which I'm expecting a short hiatus until the EV Camaro or equivalent is released.

GM sells more vehicles in America than Ford or FCA does, and they are more profitable than either, so CEO Mary Barra is running GM vey well. A good leader knows when it's time to move on if a product isn't profitable because of low sales and/or high costs. Ford learned that lesson with short-lived Mustang GT350 and GT350R, and the GT500 will follow.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Hops

That's interesting. To me, that gives more weight to the idea of the gen 6 Camaro going to 2026. Maybe they've even counted on the Camaro for an economies of scale to lower the cost for this first generation CT-4. Another poster in another thread has the view that it's really Cadillac that needs the Camaro. That makes sense when you see ATS sales. https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/cadi...sales-numbers/ They were always less than the Camaro.

This was definitely true for Alpha-1. Camaro being built on Alpha-1 helped thin the costs. Since CT4 and CT5 migrated to Alpha-2 and Camaro did not, it seems like it may not have been as front and center for Alpha-2.

Now that Cadillac has very clearly said that the plan is to go 100% BEV (except maybe Escalade), expect that both Alpha platforms will go away, unless Buick or Chevrolet add product on Alpha.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

This was definitely true for Alpha-1. Camaro being built on Alpha-1 helped thin the costs. Since CT4 and CT5 migrated to Alpha-2 and Camaro did not, it seems like it may not have been as front and center for Alpha-2.

Now that Cadillac has very clearly said that the plan is to go 100% BEV (except maybe Escalade), expect that both Alpha platforms will go away, unless Buick or Chevrolet add product on Alpha.

Yeah, the way I read the situation is along those lines.

The Camaro's structure is still very well good enough and not anywhere far off from the Alpha-2 CT5 and CT4, so there is no push for investment or worry there - the vehicle can be left alone in that regard.

If Camaro is going to stay until 2026, the way I read GM is this: they've come to a point where it now makes sense to just keep the "current" derivative of the Camaro out and transition it into something else; where, before, I felt that GM was aiming to end the "current" derivative of the Camaro and re-introduce it, kind-of a "re-set", once they had everything together for what it will be in the future. The reason I believe the Camaro will become "something else", as in it will evolve significantly, is the move of Al Oppenheiser from Camaro into the BEV Hummer stuff, the e-COPO Camaro, the industry moving towards BEV's more and GM making statements about BEV's.

If GM does extend the Camaro to 2026, I would expect them to move the SS from LT1 to some parts the same/similar to the LT2. Maybe they'll leave the SS with the LT1 and do some "Z/28" thing with an LT2-esk engine. Maybe we will see an LT5-esk ZL1? Probably some changes with the V6 and turbo I4 (not necessary the engine hardware, but with the powertrain/drivetrain in some manner), and an aesthetic re-fresh.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

Good to see that Camaro may get 3 more years out of the excellent Alpha platform, after which I'm expecting a short hiatus until the EV Camaro or equivalent is released.

GM sells more vehicles in America than Ford or FCA does, and they are more profitable than either, so CEO Mary Barra is running GM vey well. A good leader knows when it's time to move on if a product isn't profitable because of low sales and/or high costs. Ford learned that lesson with short-lived Mustang GT350 and GT350R, and the GT500 will follow.

Ford will always have a super charged Mustang to compete with the Corvette sales. I can't see Ford using the Bullitt and GT as their highest performing Mustangs.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Mountain

If Camaro is going to stay until 2026, the way I read GM is this: they've come to a point where it now makes sense to just keep the "current" derivative of the Camaro out and transition it into something else; where, before, I felt that GM was aiming to end the "current" derivative of the Camaro and re-introduce it, kind-of a "re-set", once they had everything together for what it will be in the future. The reason I believe the Camaro will become "something else", as in it will evolve significantly, is the move of Al Oppenheiser from Camaro into the BEV Hummer stuff, the e-COPO Camaro, the industry moving towards BEV's more and GM making statements about BEV's.

This is interesting viewpoint. In my undirected reading across the net, I'm trying to understand what is VSS-R vs BEV3 platform wise. I. The March GM presentation, if i remember correctly, showed a Camaro-like outline over BEV3 which is said to incorporate vss-r elements. But, the existence of VSS-R itself seems to imply everything is NOT going to be all electric? Maybe i'm just confusing what VSS-R is?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Hops

This is interesting viewpoint. In my undirected reading across the net, I'm trying to understand what is VSS-R vs BEV3 platform wise. I. The March GM presentation, if i remember correctly, showed a Camaro-like outline over BEV3 which is said to incorporate vss-r elements. But, the existence of VSS-R itself seems to imply everything is NOT going to be all electric? Maybe i'm just confusing what VSS-R is?

A more recent GM presentation was focused around the idea that GM is pulling ahead their BEV rollout, including having Cadillac go 100% BEV sooner than originally planned. In my opinion, one of the ways they may be able to pull this ahead is to save investment by not doing VSS-R. If BEV replacements for CT4 / CT5 are introduced earlier than originally planned, VSS-R is unnecessary, unless GM wants to add RWD cars to Buick and/or Chevrolet. Possible, but highly unlikely.

[V8 Firebird]

I sure the VSS-R case will go like their truck platform which share same platform but different powertrain configuration. The BT1 platform in Hummer EV is based T1 truck platform.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by V8 Firebird

I sure the VSS-R case will go like their truck platform which share same platform but different powertrain configuration. The BT1 platform in Hummer EV is based T1 truck platform.

I’m not totally understanding your thoughts here. Are you suggesting VSS-R would replace T1? T1 is a brand new platform. Expect T1 platform to last until at least 2029, probably 2034. VSS-R was going to be the platform for RWD cars except Corvette. So, that would mean CT4 and CT5 and a rumored smaller car (CT3?) and Camaro. Now that Cadillac is to be all BEV by 2025, VSS-R is not needed and Alpha goes away, leaving Camaro.... BEV or gone. There is a long shot scenario, but it really is a long shot. GM spent a lot of money increasing capacity at Bowling Green before C8 launched. That means they either expect Corvette sales to increase significantly, or something else is going into the plant. At first I thought a Cadillac sports car built on Corvette platform. But since Cadillac will be all BEV, we can rule that out. What if GM built a low volume Alpha line at BG and built Camaro and Corvette under the same roof? Possible, but highly unlikely. Feel free to start the rumor, though.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

VSS-R was going to be the platform for RWD cars except Corvette. So, that would mean CT4 and CT5 and a rumored smaller car (CT3?) and Camaro. Now that Cadillac is to be all BEV by 2025, VSS-R is not needed and Alpha goes away, leaving Camaro.... BEV or gone.

I kind of thought is was still possible a Cadillac BEV would be on the C8 platform.

I've remember reading in several 2019 articles the C8 chassis could be BEV, with statements from GM folks not dismissing the possibility.

Autocar decided to take things one step further and ask President of GM Mark Reuss if a battery-electric Corvette was in the cards. His response was also surprisingly open: "We'll see. Stay tuned," Reuss told Autocar.

Totally my speculation, but the mid-engine compartment seems a nice area to put batteries. Especially since the ultima batteries can be stacked. From the GM Fact Sheet EV Architecture

GM’s ability to stack batteries vertically is unique in the industry and it allows for a flat cabin floor and more interior room than comparable EVs that use cylindrical battery packs

But i like your idea better of an alpha Camaro living on at the Corvette plant

[Number 3]

Lot's of good discussion on this one. Getting more rare these days.

I expect the Camaro, if the rumor is true, will soldier on with annuals. That means new owners manuals and colors and that's about it. Tooling is paid for, it runs down the line with Alpha 2 so it simply spreads the cost of running the plant. Even as Camaro dwindles the the volumes that got it killed in the early 2000s, that is ok. That Camaro was the only car in St. Therese and it alone couldn't keep the plant open.

I don't see GM putting a lot of effort into it if they keep it going. The Camaro desperately needs a new interior and I don't see that happening. I don't see any powertrain variants as that is just more validation and certification work.

So it's basically free at this point to soldier on. Based on the threads in Camaro6, the Camaro is still lining up well with the Camaro faithful.

For me? I'm as hopeful as anyone that GM finds a way to take the Camaro as an EV or even FC and takes it to a level that blows Tesla to the side of the road. I have no idea what that looks like, but it's range, charging, performance and more importantly cost. GM has stated the Ultium Battery will achieve parity with ICEs. That is HUGE. That means no cost premium when you buy one. But I was also hopeful that GM would take the Gen6 to a level that made all other coupe manufacturers go WTF? How did they do that? Instead they just gave us the best Camaro ever......until Gen7 which I do hope is a spectacular EV. Not just an electric performance car. That will have already been done many times over by 2026. I mean GM uses the Camaro name to define for the industry what a true enthusiasts EV is. But that's a big hope.

[MatthewAMEL]

Then give it a Z/28 with the LT5! I'd camp out at the dealership for that.