[Thill444]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Excusing this situation like that is not acceptable. I thank God I’m not involved in this issue and totally feel for those who are. They have every right to be upset at GM for how the company is handling this mess and it’s indicative of the complacency and complete lack of quality control and customer support that contributed to their bankruptcy. The bottom line is that it’s General Motors name on the car no matter who is responsible for the defective springs, and knowing the batch of faulty springs were made, the proper way to conduct business and take care of the customers is to replace every spring in every engine built with the batch in question before failure occurs.

GM makes cool cars but their quality and customer service has always sucked. If it wasn’t for the Camaro I’d have never come back to GM after the issues I had with my Beretta that made me buy nothing but Honda’s for the last 23 years. So just because I own and love my Camaro does not mean I’m a blind GM fan boy.

Take off the blinders.

Waiting for a valve to break, thus causing complete engine destruction, is NOT the proper approach. Let’s leave our customer stranded on the highway? Let’s make sure the entire engine is destroyed then take two months for a full replacement? No. Absolutely not.

“It happens” is NOT an excuse.

So how do you feel about the Honda Takata airbag issue? That is 1000 times worse than a bad batch of valve springs... I say this as a person who has had at least one Honda in the garage for the past 16 years and still has one.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by FH212

Is there a certain mileage that they seem to fail at? Just wondering if there is a point that if it hasn't gone by this xxxx mileage your probably fine.?

It seems so far like the springs break within a few hundred miles. Let’s hope after a few thousand miles we are safe from the bad batch of springs.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Thill444

So how do you feel about the Honda Takata airbag issue? That is 1000 times worse than a bad batch of valve springs... I say this as a person who has had at least one Honda in the garage for the past 16 years and still has one.

It's subtly different as you're referring to a wholly-built component supplied by a third-party as opposed to a supplied part that you use to assemble a component.

The Takata issue is not limited to Honda, the company went bankrupt, and the sheer number of airbags that need to be replaced put a significant stress on the suppliers to build airbags that could be used as replacements. Honda was been the largest consumer of those airbags, though, and that's why the association is made to Honda specifically.

In the end, you can't replace a component if you can't get one from your supplier... So, the delays for the whole process have been awful and rightfully complained about because of the risk to owners/drivers.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Thill444

So how do you feel about the Honda Takata airbag issue? That is 1000 times worse than a bad batch of valve springs... I say this as a person who has had at least one Honda in the garage for the past 16 years and still has one.

Honda took care of it promptly by sending letter to everyone with affected airbags and getting them changed out. Then dealt with Takata on their own. Luckily I wasn’t affected.

We can also go back to GM’s ignition switch disaster, which was on the level of Honda’s Takata airbag issue. Big difference though: lots of people at GM knew it was faulty before they even went into production yet pushed them through anyway.

Here we have GM knowing the entire batch of valve springs is faulty but refusing to replace them unless and until it causes catastrophic destruction to the engine.

[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Thill444

So how do you feel about the Honda Takata airbag issue? That is 1000 times worse than a bad batch of valve springs... I say this as a person who has had at least one Honda in the garage for the past 16 years and still has one.

The main difference is that when the airbag issue was discovered, they started to recall impacted vehicles and replace the airbags. They didn't say wait until your airbag goes off then come see us.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Venomcustom

Again, I agree in a perfect world. That said if you HAD to pick. Lol.

Originally Posted by ember1205

Since GM knows the build dates of the affected engines, they wouldn't replace a failed one with another one built with the same suspect parts. Chances of a replacement engine having a major failure for any reason should be extremely low.

Oh gosh, if I had the choice I would no doubt pick a new engine. 100 times out of 100.

[AmazinglySmooth]

I had a 2011 Denali, and they recalled its airbag. No replacement was available so the dealer wouldn't offer a fair trade on it--they were concerned about it sitting on the lot too long. I sold it to Carmax for a better price.

[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Wrong.

It doesn’t matter to the customer who is at fault. General Motors name is on it - it’s up to GM to take care of the customer properly up front and then battle with whoever is at fault behind the scenes.

Taking care of the customer means ordering a full scale recall of every engine with the batch of suspected defective valve springs, sending a letter to every owner advising them to stop driving their car, provide full towing and loaner free of charge, and replace every valve spring in every engine with new ones verified to meet tolerances.

Anything less is unacceptable and not negotiable. Next step is to get a lawyer involved and for this it would be worth every penny. GM must be forced to issue a full recall of every LT-series motor made with these valve springs if they won’t do it themselves.

It actually appalls me that you or anyone would defend GM or any company in this situation.

You do NOT wait for them to break and then go about a full rebuild/replacement of the entire engine.

^^^THIS is dead-on...

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by SirJangle

The main difference is that when the airbag issue was discovered, they started to recall impacted vehicles and replace the airbags. They didn't say wait until your airbag goes off then come see us.

The point is a lot of people were injured and died and, and just like bad valve springs, it was a quality control issue with the parts supplier (Takata). For all the people who say GM should have better quality control and catch these things, I am simply reminding that it's not that easy.

If the valve spring issue turns into a recall then yes, GM would be on the hook to replace every valve spring for every affected vehicle. Right now it's not a recall, it's a TSB. If people start getting injured or dying as a result of a bad valve spring we would likely see it become a recall.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Thill444

The point is a lot of people were injured and died and, and just like bad valve springs, it was a quality control issue with the parts supplier (Takata). For all the people who say GM should have better quality control and catch these things, I am simply reminding that it's not that easy.

If the valve spring issue turns into a recall then yes, GM would be on the hook to replace every valve spring for every affected vehicle. Right now it's not a recall, it's a TSB. If people start getting injured or dying as a result of a bad valve spring we would likely see it become a recall.

The point is to prevent complete engine destruction to begin with. If a valve spring breaks that’s easily $20,000 GM is shelling out in parts and labor vs maybe $3,000 for new valves and the labor to the dealer for it. Not to mention no one wants a new car with a motor that has to be torn down to the block and rebuilt.

[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Thill444

The point is a lot of people were injured and died and, and just like bad valve springs, it was a quality control issue with the parts supplier (Takata). For all the people who say GM should have better quality control and catch these things, I am simply reminding that it's not that easy.

If the valve spring issue turns into a recall then yes, GM would be on the hook to replace every valve spring for every affected vehicle. Right now it's not a recall, it's a TSB. If people start getting injured or dying as a result of a bad valve spring we would likely see it become a recall.

Gotcha... I'm not one who's saying that it's a quality control issue per se. The issue to me is that they KNOW about this and are taking a wait-until-it-breaks approach. And, why wait until someone gets hurt and/or dies? GM knows about it NOW and should be proactive NOW.

Peace & Progress

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Thill444

The point is a lot of people were injured and died and, and just like bad valve springs, it was a quality control issue with the parts supplier (Takata). For all the people who say GM should have better quality control and catch these things, I am simply reminding that it's not that easy.

If the valve spring issue turns into a recall then yes, GM would be on the hook to replace every valve spring for every affected vehicle. Right now it's not a recall, it's a TSB. If people start getting injured or dying as a result of a bad valve spring we would likely see it become a recall.

Takata was a COMPONENT supplier, not a parts supplier per se.

If the issue were that GM was installing engines made by a third-party, the comparisons would be much more on par.

[FH212]

Originally Posted by Venomcustom

It seems so far like the springs break within a few hundred miles. Let’s hope after a few thousand miles we are safe from the bad batch of springs.

I have around 300 miles now. I am going to go for a few rides this weekend and get some more miles and see how it goes.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Of course they test every engine before the car leaves the plant! I guess you really don't know what you're talking about. Also, every engine in every automobile sold these days is constantly testing itself. That is literally what OBD is all about!


Uhhh, yeah. And GM doesn't test every valve spring they install in a motor. Neither does any valve spring manufacturer test every spring they sell. But even if they did, it's very unlikely this problem would have shown up as an issue with spring pressures. Obviously something went wrong with a batch, and GM is repairing the problems. And if you think Polaris has 1/10th the quality control and testing that GM has for its motors, well, you're just really ignorant.

They run-up dyno every engine?

They don’t need to check every spring, only batches from same wire stock. Somewhere treatment & tensile strength went south. That stuff is tested & recorded at the manufacturer level. Somewhere there is a paper trail on that steel.