[aa406079]

I find it funny that folks feel a 3600 lb Z28 would have its ass handed to it by a almost 4000 lb ZL1 auto....

If they do a 427 engine... it wont add any weight... if they do extensive CF... further weight reduction...

I hear alot of people who love automatics clucking how the new 10 speed ZL1 will be the supreme track car... Why the hell would GM make a Z28 if it wasn't the better track car?

I'm waiting for the Spring to see what they have in store for the Z28... if it comes with the heavy, supercharged LT4.... I'll just stick to my original plan...

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474068

[Mountain]

IMSA. GS. GT4.

[R.C. Collins]

Originally Posted by aa406079

I hear alot of people who love automatics clucking how the new 10 speed ZL1 will be the supreme track car... Why the hell would GM make a Z28 if it wasn't the better track car?

Agreed. Same goes for the 1LE. The Z28 would have to be the better track car to justify it's higher price and preserve it's heritage. And considering only 7% of the driving population in this country are capable of operating a manual transmission (per Edmunds), it stands to reason the cluckers among us would heap praise upon automatics like in the ZL1, regardless of it's yet-to-be proven potential, because it is the only version they can drive. I much prefer the involvement of a manual at the expense of a tenth or two.

[doc7000]

I don't understand the logic that some hold about the Z/28 not being faster then the Z/28 Camaro. The ZL1 Camaro with manual transmission is what 3,887 pounds (auto is something like 3,940 pounds), the ZL1 is 6 pounds per horsepower which is impressive. However consider that the C6 Z06 with Z07 package ran the ring in 7:22 while the ZL1 ran it in 7:29 and the Z06 only had 505BHP. If they can come in at about 3,600 pounds the Z/28 only needs 600BHP to match the power to weight ratio. However with the better brakes and tires they could just stick the LS7 in it and run a faster lap time. Give it 550BHP at 3,600 pounds and call it a day....

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by R.C. Collins

the cluckers among us would heap praise upon automatics like in the ZL1, regardless of it's yet-to-be proven potential

Technically there is something. The gear spacing is tighter in the A10 than in most production-car manual transmissions. But this still falls in with the thinking that the car with a better power to weight ratio will be able to pull out more of an advantage down the straights than it gives up through the more technical sections because of things like additional weight or less advantageous weight distribution. IOW, still kind of a drag-race mentality and not the sort of thing that means you suddenly got better as a driver.

Any time that you can't be at WOT, peak power becomes less relevant. For example, when you're on 'maintenance throttle' through a long sweeper, it doesn't matter whether you're not using 300 HP or not using 500.

To a point, you'd still be better off with a MT with the same gearing as the A10, once you became able to keep up with the extra shifting that would be required. I'm guessing the limit here would be when the difference in 'shift time' overcomes what the difference in weight amounts to in terms of lap time. I'm also assuming that the revs for the AT car would always be such that the torque converter would be either locked up completely or permitting such a small amount of 'slip' that it would not be contributing significantly to the AT's lap time performance.


FWIW and from the video of an A10 in a track setting, the A10 is the first AT I'd ever consider. That's just for a track setting, and I'd really want a different way of manually operating it than these paddles that are so popular these days. I remain unconvinced that I'd ever fully appreciate it or any other AT in street driving; they're still too different from what I've got too many years near-exclusive to completely-exclusive experience driving with.


Norm

[2010REDSS]

Has there been any discussion around the Wet Sump aspects of the ZL1?

Having fried the LS6 in my FFR GTM pulling too many G's on road courses, I would never extensively track a car without a Dry Sump system. Replaced it with a 675HP N/A LS7 with a full Dry Sump.

I would assume that one of the other differences between the hoped for Gen 6 Z/28 and the ZL1 would be a Dry Sump system (as in the Gen 5). No?

[hjdca]

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

Has there been any discussion around the Wet Sump aspects of the ZL1?

Having fried the LS6 in my FFR GTM pulling too many G's on road courses, I would never extensively track a car without a Dry Sump system. Replaced it with a 675HP N/A LS7 with a full Dry Sump.

I would assume that one of the other differences between the hoped for Gen 6 Z/28 and the ZL1 would be a Dry Sump system (as in the Gen 5). No?

I think I saw somewhere that Chevy wanted to put a dry sump in the new ZL1, but, could not fit it in together with the blower and all the heat exchangers... That may be another reason they have to go NA on the new Z/28 -- to keep the dry sump.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hjdca

I think I saw somewhere that Chevy wanted to put a dry sump in the new ZL1, but, could not fit it in together with the blower and all the heat exchangers... That may be another reason they have to go NA on the new Z/28 -- to keep the dry sump.

Chevy didn't go dry sump on the ZL1 because the Camaro has more clearance than the Corvette, so they could fit a deep enough oil pan under the ZL1 to avoid ingesting air into the oil pump while pulling high Gs.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Chevy didn't go dry sump on the ZL1 because the Camaro has more clearance than the Corvette, so they could fit a deep enough oil pan under the ZL1 to avoid ingesting air into the oil pump while pulling high Gs.

I was wondering about this the other day why they didn't go dry sump. Thanks

[Diggitydog]

Originally Posted by aa406079

I find it funny that folks feel a 3600 lb Z28 would have its ass handed to it by a almost 4000 lb ZL1 auto....

If they do a 427 engine... it wont add any weight... if they do extensive CF... further weight reduction...

I hear alot of people who love automatics clucking how the new 10 speed ZL1 will be the supreme track car... Why the hell would GM make a Z28 if it wasn't the better track car?

I'm waiting for the Spring to see what they have in store for the Z28... if it comes with the heavy, supercharged LT4.... I'll just stick to my original plan...

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474068

The Z28 will be better on the track. Folks are just excited about the ZL1 which is a good thing.

[Norm Peterson]

The lighter car will go about its business with a lighter feel (if that can even be said for any 3600 lb car), but once speeds get up into triple digits, power to aero and power to weight eventually take over (as long as the cornering side of the more powerful car's performance isn't down by too much) and very likely result in quicker lap times.

Two very different definitions of "better", and the comparative lap times tend to be circuit-dependent.


I doubt that a Z/28 and a ZL1 would compete directly against each other in a racing series, while this sort of "what-if" forum topic usually sees things from a "run what you brung and hope you brung enough" point of view.


Norm

[mr965]

This may force some very tough decisions for those who like to track their cars.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by mr965

This may force some very tough decisions for those who like to track their cars.

That depends (almost entirely) if those people like to also drive their cars several, or all days a week.

[mlee]

I'm almost hoping my A10 car doesn't deliver until after Daytona.
I'm a doubter of this being a Z/28, but may be worth considering over the ZL1.

If something really big does drop I could see myself waiting again, but it would have to be this year.
Also, I'm set on A10 so if it's not an option I'll be sticking with the ZL1.

Trade in or up may be an option as well if it's something late in the 2018 MY.