[driven2exceSS]

Originally Posted by Chub2000

I have the bar amd seats, but i havnt had a chance to install everything. I'll load pics when its all done.

Awesome

[Sakudog]

Originally Posted by slick3

I have been thinking about doing whats been talked about in this thread. 4 point cage, fixed back seat and a proper 6 point. The argument that it would be LESS safe than OEM I believe to be wrong. Keeping your body tightly in one spot + the addition of head/neck restraints systems + a proper HALO containment seat... I think that beats OEM any day of the week.

Its one of those catch 22's. You cant go halfway with this stuff, you have to go all or none it seems. One component missing out of the list and I would then agree, yes, just keep it OEM.

As far as I am aware, there is zero solutions to the airbag problem. As soon as you take the factory seat out, and the air bag light is on, the entire system is disabled.

It would be great if there was a proper harness solution that mounted to a seat bracket and you could just swap the seat out for the factory seat during street time. There is no way I would let a passenger in my car otherwise with the airbags disabled.

From what I gather, 2 options. Planted makes a seat bracket and so does Brey Kraus. I think the seat bracket is often overlooked. If you do not get a high quality bullet proof bracket, then your nice fancy seat and belts wont do anything for you when good times go bad.

I think BK would get my vote as of current.

Stuff like this makes me rethink tracking a street car. Its hard to pull dull duty and do it right.

Quick note here, the airbag light being on will NOT disable the system in the 6th gen Camaro at least. As I've seen from an on-track incident, a friend of mine, who occasionally posts here crashed his 18 ZL1 with a harness bar, seats and all of the air bags left in the car STILL deployed.

The argument of safety in these cars is a tough one, I am also on the fence when it comes to adding a bolt in 4 point vs just a harness bar as the car is a DD and occasional track toy. My problem, not yours, but these airbags will still deploy if an OEM seat is missing and the service airbag light is on.

[SSE 4 2SS]

I installed an RPM system in my 5th Gen.... Land speed racing.... I started with the 6 point system expandable to an 8 or 10 point system. You could add the halo and the front down bars, but the seat sub bars could not be installed with the factory seats.... My other issue, was at 6'1", I couldn't wear a helmet with the halo bar. It was too far to the middle of the headliner for me to sit upright...

I opted for a custom weld in cage and removed the RPM and sold it.

Thoughts from actually doing it...

The bolt in sandwich plates were overall pretty robust.... For the main hoop, there were the bolt in plates at the floor board behind the front seat, and then the two bars that went down to the fender wells. That was probably the most likely tear through area, and I've seen one of these bars literally bent in half in the center and no tear through.... This was on Nachos car that he rolled at 195-200 mph. He and his passenger both went out to eat that evening....

The install, it was extensive.... Both front seats have to be removed... The carpet has to be removed or at least rolled up in the corners. The rear seats have to be removed... The rear side panels have to be removed and cut/modified for the rear down bars... This sounds pretty easy, and might be for someone adept to and used to doing this, but it can be a pain in the butt.... I've installed 4 of the RPM bars... It never got much easier.... I was familiar with it but it didn't make it easier...

The rear wheels and fender liners have to come out... It takes a minimum of two, and preferably three people to install the bar into the car... The centering and alignment then takes place, as well as marking the location of the holes to be drilled.... Some of that hard polymer insulator material has to be chiseled out to level everything, then the bar has to be removed again... The holes are then drilled and prepared for installation, this includes cleaning the holes and protecting them from the elements... Paint, silicone etc... however you choose to do this....

Then you reinstall the bar and start trying to align and install the bolt hardware while someone else aligns the backer plates... For the fender well bolts, put the bolts in from the bottom or the fender liner wont go back in properly...

After it is all bolted in, mark, cut to clearance, twist and bend the crap out of the side panel covers and slide them between the car body side and the bar, then rotate it around and align it to snap back into place....I threw several of the foam backer blocks away as it was a booger to get them back in.... Cut the carpet to fit around the down bars and reinstall it... Squeeze and slide the rear seat pieces through the bar and into place.... I recommend a rear seat delete kit... much easier to deal with, and no one can ride in back anyway....

Then you reinstall the seats... This is all for the four point bar only.... Door bars require the additional feet install, with the associated headaches there, rolling back the forward carpet pieces, pulling the foot well panels, etc...

Thoughts....

The bar was very adequate for moderate mile speeds, and approved up to 200 mph by the tech personnel.... When I broke my car, at 217 mph at the 3/4 mile, the lead tech guy called me over, told me nice pass, too bad about the broken motor, and oh, don't come back until you have a full cage.... That's when I went custom...

Air bags... Remove the side bags (both) at a minimum.... Having the side curtain bags go off, with the main hoop in place, and worse the halo, is asking to have the bars driven into you, and/or, having the roof pushed off the car and the pillars and door frames spread out...

I removed the passenger side dash bag, and the side curtain airbags. I kept the steering wheel bag up until I went to a quick release steering wheel... The dash light was just one of many since I ran the ProEFI system and numerous lights stayed on... traction control, seat belts etc...

If you only do the bar, (4 point) then you can keep the factory seats and drive the seat back into the bar for some rigidity... then the 5 or six point harness is super sturdy... You can also add in a containment seat for track days and increase the overall security...There is an attachment you can get to secure the containmet seat to the bar.... I was happy with the Halo3 seat I got at Winding Road racing.... You'll need fairly accurate butt measurement for a really secure fit... It is quite comfortable...



https://store.windingroad.com/ultras...over-p506.aspx

Unless you are not wearing a seatbelt at all, I can state it is "virtually" impossible for you to make contact with the main hoop and your head in the event of a wreck on the street..... The main hoop is fully behind the seats, and you would have to come out of the seat and go between them to make contact... Not impossible, but not likely.... I would think you have bigger problems at that point... I know anything can happen, and as a retired paramedic, I've seen lots of it.... However...

I hope some of this has given you some insight... I will state as someone else did, it is most assuredly a more secure point for attaching harness elements than a harness bar is....

[NickyRacerBoy]

Originally Posted by ninetres

Properly designed and installed bolt ins can be every bit as safe as a weld in. Weld ins can also puncture a floor.

That being said, either one is a death sentence in a street car driven without a helmet.

I know a guy who died driving his drag car on the street got in a car accident hit his head and he was dead

[NickyRacerBoy]

I'm not sure if you seen this but you probably have but figured I'd just post it. Over the winter I gave it a lot of thought that safety is Paramount. cruising on the street is actually boring to me anymore

[Real1LE]

so are you guys saying that a roll bar or harness bar in a street car is deadly for driving without a helmet (street driving)? that defeats the purpose of it being a "Street Car" then.... and can someone explain how: having a fixed race seat and a roll bar (not touching) be dangerous when in a street crash? for your head hits the bar that means it has to go through the seat and back a few inches. At that point you were probably being stupid and driving really fast! that sounds like a personal issue to me.. you have to be responsible on track and on street.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Real1LE

so are you guys saying that a roll bar or harness bar in a street car is deadly for driving without a helmet (street driving)? that defeats the purpose of it being a "Street Car" then.... and can someone explain how: having a fixed race seat and a roll bar (not touching) be dangerous when in a street crash? for your head hits the bar that means it has to go through the seat and back a few inches. At that point you were probably being stupid and driving really fast! that sounds like a personal issue to me.. you have to be responsible on track and on street.

You can have a high speed collision without driving like an asshat.. it just takes a second driver to drive like an asshat instead.

Now the bars I've seen for the Camaro have been fairly far back. The concern is often the seat back breaking which DOES happen in accidents but seems like common on modern cars. Personally I'll likely install a roll bar in the ZLE if I could find one I truly felt was well engineered but I don't really daily drive it either so that's a risk I can manage fairly well IMO.