[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by mlee

...and the title of this thread is perfect...

Lol, yeah...

I put an email into Mobil 1 asking them what's going on with the DEXOS2 labeling. Will report back, but I think the JEGS oil is exactly the same and it's MSRP of $53 is about the same as the DEXOS2-labeled ESP 0w-40 other places are selling. Also, GM won't know whether the bottle has the DEXOS2 label or not for warranty purposes.

Price is by far the best I've seen anywhere...

[MR's 2SS]

Going on 4 years for this thread!
OK.... So had the 2ss 2 months of winter. Just really starting to put some miles on.
Whats going on between the OLD PF64 and new?
Whats the proper WIX number? And whats the difference between a PF64 and UPF64 Ultra Gold? Both on Amazon. The gold is twice the price. I dont see any discussion about that and often theres little difference beyond labelling.
I see a few guys using the Motul 5w 40. Which is Dexos 2.
I dont have an informed opinion about 0w vs 5w....40.
I always had pretty clear informed opinions on oil and filters but all thats out the window with this car.
Dont care about cost. But availability matters. Just want whats best for a car we plan on keeping long term.

[DaveC113]

David,

Thank you for writing to us. Yes there has been several label changes over the past year with our motor oils. As long as the containers read Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0W40 and NOT Mobil 1 FS 0W40 European Car Formula then they are Dexos 2 approved.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for choosing Mobil,
Joe
Mobil Help Desk Team

[20Bluezl1]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

David,

Thank you for writing to us. Yes there has been several label changes over the past year with our motor oils. As long as the containers read Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0W40 and NOT Mobil 1 FS 0W40 European Car Formula then they are Dexos 2 approved.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for choosing Mobil,
Joe
Mobil Help Desk Team

Nice so as long as it's says ESP your good. I'm guessing that Dexos2 ink on the label cost more😀

[MR's 2SS]

Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1

Nice so as long as it's says ESP your good. I'm guessing that Dexos2 ink on the label cost more��

Right... and the next email needs to be to GM... Because if they disagree... ohh well.
Im looking at Motul or Torco 5w 40 . Both high quality and both wearing the Dexos symbol... A little more expensive.
But for some psychological reason I feel better with 5w than 0w...

[20Bluezl1]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

Right... and the next email needs to be to GM... Because if they disagree... ohh well.
Im looking at Motul or Torco 5w 40 . Both high quality and both wearing the Dexos symbol... A little more expensive.
But for some psychological reason I feel better with 5w than 0w...

But I believe you can't use 5W at the track

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

Right... and the next email needs to be to GM... Because if they disagree... ohh well.
Im looking at Motul or Torco 5w 40 . Both high quality and both wearing the Dexos symbol... A little more expensive.
But for some psychological reason I feel better with 5w than 0w...

It's the factory fill on '19+ Camaros and Vettes, pretty sure GM will be ok with it. It's the most ideal oil on the market for our cars for a variety of reasons and 0w allows the oil to circulate faster on cold starts.

It's just too important not to confirm it's the same oil given the differences in labeling. It is the same oil no matter the label, if it says "ESP Formula".

[MR's 2SS]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

It's the factory fill on '19+ Camaros and Vettes, pretty sure GM will be ok with it. It's the most ideal oil on the market for our cars for a variety of reasons and 0w allows the oil to circulate faster on cold starts.

It's just too important not to confirm it's the same oil given the differences in labeling. It is the same oil no matter the label, if it says "ESP Formula".

Yea I know...Ill have a few months to decide. Ill get the free change at the dealer.
Theres always a recommendation and over the years Ive always used lubes I researched and believe to be better.. Higher quality.. This is the first time in decades I had to make a decision I wasnt feeling properly informed about. If I cant make an informed decision on a better lube Ill use the M1.
The next discussion is filters. A lot of complaining about the "new" PF64 design seemingly being of low quality to some.
I use NAPA Gold in my fleets vehicles but I use the factory Motorcraft filters in my truck because everyone recommended them.
These are some of the reasons I had been leasing my wifes cars for years. Its just easy. I havnt waxed one of her cars in 15 years. Let the dealer change the oil... take it to the car wash... give it back...
Now Im lamenting lube changes and filters for hours...

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

Yea I know...Ill have a few months to decide. Ill get the free change at the dealer.
Theres always a recommendation and over the years Ive always used lubes I researched and believe to be better.. Higher quality.. This is the first time in decades I had to make a decision I wasnt feeling properly informed about. If I cant make an informed decision on a better lube Ill use the M1.
The next discussion is filters. A lot of complaining about the "new" PF64 design seemingly being of low quality to some.
I use NAPA Gold in my fleets vehicles but I use the factory Motorcraft filters in my truck because everyone recommended them.
These are some of the reasons I had been leasing my wifes cars for years. Its just easy. I havnt waxed one of her cars in 15 years. Let the dealer change the oil... take it to the car wash... give it back...
Now Im lamenting lube changes and filters for hours...

You're seriously overthinking this. You've talked yourself into using an oil that is definitely not approved by GM (a 5w) because you're worried that the 0w40 M1 ESP is secretly not Dexos II certified and might not meet GM requirements...even though Mobil themselves have verified that it is and even though that's the factory fill for these cars. If you feel better about 5W, it's because you don't understand how oil and viscosity ratings work. Now you're losing sleep over oil filters. I run Wix/NAPA because they are good quality and easy to find. If you run the AC/Delco PF64, I'm sure that will be fine, too.

[MR's 2SS]

HAHAHA.. I appreciate your concern. But its not really like that.
Im polling to see what guys are using. I understand the physics behind the oil and why they are using whatever.
Im not new to this. Im old. I was first sold on full synth in 1988 when I bought a new Peterbilt and the manufacturer of the rears gave you an additional 250,000 miles of warrantee simply to switch to synth after break in.
I have my opinions on Harley oil and I use what I think is best. I have one thats 43 years old Ive owned since new... I have been maintaining fleets of trucks and machinery for 40 plus years... Boats... even a waste water treatment plant now...
But theres some differences now. Its not just oil and filters... Its a general move with so many products towards being crap. Its government regulations changing formulations for agendas that do not include your longterm trouble free enjoyment.
So you have diesel trucks that are troublesome due to controls that cost you money up front... and forever. Heavy equipment that has no business containing micro controls and computerized everything because they live in mud and dust.. or salt... I use cold patch asphalt to repair roads during winter that has had the formulations changed... literally from a useful product to something I wont waste money on because it doesnt last past the first rain... and costs more than before...
The oil specification is more about protecting the emissions system than the engine. Lubricant additives have been removed in the past because they could slip past the rings and burn adding either to pollution or degradation of the cats, etc.
The issue with the filters is from reports on this forum where guys who were using the PF64s noticed they had new part numbers and had become smaller and were of such light construction that they were hard to remove because they just ripped.
So the 0w thing... I admit to not fully understanding that. I know its about cold starts...
Theres also discussion about the GDI injection system resulting in more pollutants finding their way into the oil. A lot of guys running catch cans over the PVCs putting a lot of oil back into the intake.
Theres a lot of change going on and not all of it is in our best interest. So Im just gathering info...not losing sleep.
I say a lot of things in jest... "like lamenting for hours"... just busting balls but I guess in black and white its hard to see that.
For me the M1 0w40 and PF64 is a baseline. If I cant establish a better plan thats what Ill use.. Or if something better presents itself along the way Ill change. The research and discussions are a hobby for me. Being able to communicate with others with the same toys and enthusiasm is a bonus.

[DaveC113]

I've been using WIX XP oil filters. As often as the oil is changed on these cars it may not matter too much.

[MR's 2SS]

Originally Posted by Msquared

You're seriously overthinking this. You've talked yourself into using an oil that is definitely not approved by GM (a 5w) because you're worried that the 0w40 M1 ESP is secretly not Dexos II certified and might not meet GM requirements...even though Mobil themselves have verified that it is and even though that's the factory fill for these cars. If you feel better about 5W, it's because you don't understand how oil and viscosity ratings work. Now you're losing sleep over oil filters. I run Wix/NAPA because they are good quality and easy to find. If you run the AC/Delco PF64, I'm sure that will be fine, too.

You know actually 5w 30 is approved. The manual says the 5w 30 can be used for street driving.
I wouldnt say 5w 40 that is DEXOS 2 and their spec sheet and label says GM Dexos 2 approved.. was not approved.
Both the Motul 8100 5w 40 and Torco 5w 40 have GM Dexos 2 approval.
I just cant wrap my head around the zero.... the way I understand it... its 0 weight oil with additives to bring it to 40 at operating temp.
I realize much of this is 100% synth.. and so a typical mental image of 0 weight being more or less water.... might not be at all relevant.
The only reason I even care about the dexos 2 is warranty concern. So if I already dont feel like the M1 is my favorite oil for more valid reasons the absence of the proper labelling feels like enough reason to investigate other options that may be technically better who still retain the label.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

You know actually 5w 30 is approved. The manual says the 5w 30 can be used for street driving.

The manual for my 2020 says you can use that if the recommended 0w40 is not available. It's available. I mean, if you have an emergency somewhere away from home and have to replace oil, then...I guess. But even then, you still need to find Dexos 1 5w30, which isn't much easier to find than the correct 0w40 Dexos 2. But that's not my point. My point is that people seem to try really hard to find reasons to use something other than what is specified for these cars, and now that you can order it at a reasonable price, that just seems silly.

I wouldnt say 5w 40 that is DEXOS 2 and their spec sheet and label says GM Dexos 2 approved.. was not approved.

It doesn't matter what you say. The manual says it's not approved. It doesn't leave room for interpretation on this point. And again, why would anyone intentionally order that when they can just as easily/cheaply order the correct weight and spec?

Both the Motul 8100 5w 40 and Torco 5w 40 have GM Dexos 2 approval.

The manual doesn't say "use any Dexos 2 oil." It says use Dexos 2 0w40 for street and track, or you can use 15w50 for track use only.

I just cant wrap my head around the zero.... the way I understand it... its 0 weight oil with additives to bring it to 40 at operating temp.
I realize much of this is 100% synth.. and so a typical mental image of 0 weight being more or less water.... might not be at all relevant.

Mobil 1 0w40 ESP has a kinematic viscosity at 40C (104F) of 69 mm2/s, and that drops to 12.9 at 100C (212F). So it's more than five times thicker during a "cold start" on a summer day than it is at operating temp. Even 15w50 only has a kinematic viscosity of 18 at 100C, so at 40C the 0w40 is still almost four times thicker than the 15w50 is at operating temp. Even a 0w oil is way thicker at cold startup than is ideal!

The kinematic viscosity of water at 40C is about 0.7: almost 100 times thinner than 0w40 ESP at the same temp! So you're way out in left field with that comparison. You really need to recalibrate the way you're thinking about oil specs.

Also, synthetic oils don't necessarily start as a 0w base weight and then use additives to get a hot rating of 40. A true synthetic can be engineered to start with a base stock that gets at least part of the way to a its multi-weight rating before any additives get mixed in.

The only reason I even care about the dexos 2 is warranty concern. So if I already dont feel like the M1 is my favorite oil for more valid reasons the absence of the proper labelling feels like enough reason to investigate other options that may be technically better who still retain the label.

That doesn't make sense. Your "valid" reasons are just plain wrong, per the discussion of kinematic viscosity above. If you aren't clear about those things, then on what basis can you make an assessment that some non-specified oil is "technically better?"

[MR's 2SS]

^^^
Thats a well thought out post...
Your still taking my thoughts too seriously but honestly your right across the board.
And still the M1 sits high on my list. I dont disagree.
But In 78 my then new Harley manual required a certain weight of HD labelled oil. I did try it once and after running the bike a while I noticed when I checked the oil the oil in the tank was all foam... So I tried different oil... didnt foam... I used the stock filters until something better came along... I went to the dealer once after buying the bike. For the 500 mile checkup and that was the last time.
The engine still runs perfectly.
I use the required oil in my truck which is 5w 30. They dont require a brand. But a couple a years prior the very same 6.2 engine required 5w 20... I accidentally got 5w20 one time and put it in and the truck got close to 2 mpg better fuel economy... But then they went to 5w 30...as it turns out they seem to have gone with the lighter oil so they could claim better MPG for the truck. Deffinately not a high priority for me. When I realized I messed up I dumped the new 20 weight and refilled with the proper oil.
So Im here debating oil for our new Camaro for a while. With almost 600 miles. Ill do the first change at the dealer. Probably at 1000. After that Ill be doing them myself. So by 2500 or so when I change it myself Ill have a more informed reason to either choose 0w 40 M1... or not.
And Im being honest... Thanks for your opinion.... thats the kind of reply Im looking for