[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Does it no longer interest you because you realize you just might have been wrong

No. It's just not worth debating anymore. You guys will defend it until the GT500 is $120K MSRP and the GT is $60K. Which might be soon judging by the progression of things. Look at what you'd have to spend to match a $62K ZL1. Supply and demand right? That dictates price. If you don't think that years of demand resulting in people paying more for the car is even partially the reason the MSRP increased by $5K then fine. A few more years and the R will be $80K.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Does it no longer interest you because you realize you just might have been wrong lol I mean you side stepped the conversation and went right back to trying bash the GT350 and GT500

But it's all good man we have debated the same stuff to the death lol. I almost wonder how many pages of this thread are you just you and me going back and forth haha.

I am anxious to see results as well

I am disappointed in Ford and the GT500. This recent 11.4 is what did it. And that was the CF version, am I correct? The money you have to spend to get decent performance out of a Mustang is too lopsided. So there's no more need to debate any of this anymore. I just want to see them take both cars around a track and that's about it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSDan

More than you could possibly imagine!

BlaqWhole has 869 posts in this thread and you have 388.

Whenever I am bored I check in on this thread for entertainment.

So much energy expended over the debated .1 of a second here and there.

Amazing! Press on.

My job is great in that I have lots of free time. I need something to do between watching movies.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No. It's just not worth debating anymore. You guys will defend it until the GT500 is $120K MSRP and the GT is $60K. Which might be soon judging by the progression of things. Look at what you'd have to spend to match a $62K ZL1. Supply and demand right? That dictates price. If you don't think that years of demand resulting in people paying more for the car is even partially the reason the MSRP increased by $5K then fine. A few more years and the R will be $80K.

I am disappointed in Ford and the GT500. This recent 11.4 is what did it. And that was the CF version, am I correct? The money you have to spend to get decent performance out of a Mustang is too lopsided. So there's no more need to debate any of this anymore. I just want to see them take both cars around a track and that's about it.

I can understand being disappointed in a vehicle because you feel it doesn’t meet your expectations, but I’m not sure I get why this recent 11.4@132+ is “the final straw.”

It’s an unprepped surface, expecting it to run its best time is silly. We shouldn’t be surprised when an Olympic sprinter can’t achieve world record results running on a local high school track, or any other maximum effort performance coming up short in less than optimal conditions.

And again, you mention how disappointed you are in $:performance knowing that it’s the CF equipped version running these times when the base will perform just as well.

[Nightfall ss1le]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

The trap speed tells the tale, clearly traction issues which is expected with so much power and an un-prepped surface. The gap will grow on the strip.

This. I don’t know how anyone, regardless of brand loyalty, can doubt it’ll be a straight line animal if there’s decent traction. Personally I’m curious how the base will do head to head against the ZLE on a track. If it it’s neck & neck or beats it then it’ll be a big win for Ford. If it’s clearly slower then it’ll be a big fail IMHO even if the GT500 CF is faster.... for that money & with no back seats it better take down the future C8 Z06’s to be worth it for anyone other than diehard brand loyalists.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I can understand being disappointed in a vehicle because you feel it doesn’t meet your expectations, but I’m not sure I get why this recent 11.4@132+ is “the final straw.”

It’s an unprepped surface, expecting it to run its best time is silly. We shouldn’t be surprised when an Olympic sprinter can’t achieve world record results running on a local high school track, or any other maximum effort performance coming up short in less than optimal conditions.

And again, you mention how disappointed you are in $:performance knowing that it’s the CF equipped version running these times when the base will perform just as well.

Cf version, Base version, whatever. The one they ran was a $94K car which will be more after options are added in. And it ran 11.4. The Base being faster has nothing to do with how this one performs. At that price there should be more than a driver's race difference between it and the ZL1 when both are subjected to the same testing regardless of the track. But there isn't. All that remains is to see what happens around a track. And frankly, I don't think it will have the stuff to win. Yet it costs more than what a fully optioned Z06 3LZ costs. So I have nothing left to debate.

For the record, I did say that even the Redeye at $90K+ was too much for these types of vehicles. The only difference between the RE and the GT500 is that the Shelby handles better. But it is still way too expensive. Both are. And I'll give the Base version it's due. Sure, on a prepped track in great conditions it went 10.6. But the RE went 10.88 in similar conditions while the ZL1 did 10.9.

So I pretty much have all the info I need. Ford did do a great job. I will give them that. But in all truth, they merely just caught up to the rest of the competition. In a way it isn't their fault because the competition made leaps and bounds over the past few years. Dodge already reached the traction limits of RWD cars and Chevy proved what a very well designed car can do. By the time Ford got here there really was nothing left to accomplish except showing they can do it too.

[Nightfall ss1le]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

HAHAHA....I would no doubt own one if they were the same price as the 1LE. I would pick the 350 everyday and twice on Sunday over a 1LE, and the Voodoo is why, however $61.5K is high for me.

I like the way they packaged the 2020 350 too actually, and love them in the new silver!!

If they priced it at $55K MSRP then I would be a buyer for sure, so I guess I am less than $10K apart.

Sorry, I missed your reply yesterday but I agree that it’s a great package. The voodoo is the one thing that would make it really attractive for that price.. and the same voodoo is what would scare me away from it lol. I’m not sold on trusting that engine to last as long as GM performance cars. I used to be pretty unbiased when it came to American muscle till I beat the living shit out of my 02 WS6 I had for almost 200K miles without touching a thing on it. Not saying Voodoo’s won’t end up being that tough but it’ll have to be proven for many years for me to put it in that category.

[rfopt]

I'm hoping that Motor Trend does a detailed head to head between the ZLE and GT500 CFTP with comparative track performance analysis, turn by turn, similar to what they did in their head to head between the ZL1 and GT350R.

We know the GT500 will pull away from the ZL1 significantly on the more straight portions. And IMO, it will beat the ZLE on the track in elapsed times. However, I'm interested in the "how" and "why" behind it. Will it be only due to the extra power? The ZLE may match/exceed the GT500 CFTP in speed through some turns or it may trail in speed in most turns. We will eventually find out.

One of the most intriguing features of the GT500 is the reported exceptional ride/handling tradeoff, which I think the new 4th generation magnetic ride control technology is contributing noticeably to. The C8 Corvette has it also and that car reportedly has exceptional ride/handing balance also.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Nightfall ss1le

This. I don’t know how anyone, regardless of brand loyalty, can doubt it’ll be a straight line animal if there’s decent traction. Personally I’m curious how the base will do head to head against the ZLE on a track. If it it’s neck & neck or beats it then it’ll be a big win for Ford. If it’s clearly slower then it’ll be a big fail IMHO even if the GT500 CF is faster.... for that money & with no back seats it better take down the future C8 Z06’s to be worth it for anyone other than diehard brand loyalists.

Very slight chance I could be wrong, but it's not going to beat a c8 z06, it'll have it's hands full with a c7 z06 and zr1 at a track let alone a c8 version.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

While I agree with the current crop of Ford guys posting on this thread lately, and think prepped and unprepped surface numbers should be looked at... it is interesting and a far cry from about 100 pages ago when Idahoe2018gt and others were citing magazine numbers only (incorrect ones often) and claiming that was the only data that should be used for the a10 and a8 camaro ss and how the c7 z06 never went faster than 11.0 in MT or C&D even though everyone knows it's run mid and high 10s at a drag strip before... wonder what their take on the gt500s C&D 11.4 number vs some YouTuber's 10.6s-10.9s lol

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Very slight chance I could be wrong, but it's not going to beat a c8 z06, it'll have it's hands full with a c7 z06 and zr1 at a track let alone a c8 version.

I don't think there is any chance you're wrong. And I'll go one step further and say it will have it's hands full with the ZL1 before it even gets to battle the likes of any Z06 past the 5th Gen. I don't think Ford wants to step in that territory.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

While I agree with the current crop of Ford guys posting on this thread lately, and think prepped and unprepped surface numbers should be looked at... it is interesting and a far cry from about 100 pages ago when Idahoe2018gt and others were citing magazine numbers only (incorrect ones often) and claiming that was the only data that should be used for the a10 and a8 camaro ss and how the c7 z06 never went faster than 11.0 in MT or C&D even though everyone knows it's run mid and high 10s at a drag strip before... wonder what their take on the gt500s C&D 11.4 number vs some YouTuber's 10.6s-10.9s lol

I wonder what their take is on the C8 Z51 doing 3 tenths faster (11.1 vs 11.4). I'm just waiting for someone to get a C8 and break into the 10s.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Nightfall ss1le

Sorry, I missed your reply yesterday but I agree that it’s a great package. The voodoo is the one thing that would make it really attractive for that price.. and the same voodoo is what would scare me away from it lol. I’m not sold on trusting that engine to last as long as GM performance cars. I used to be pretty unbiased when it came to American muscle till I beat the living shit out of my 02 WS6 I had for almost 200K miles without touching a thing on it. Not saying Voodoo’s won’t end up being that tough but it’ll have to be proven for many years for me to put it in that category.

Man, we could not be any more on the same page here. I had a '96 Z28 and LOVED the WS6's. Had a '94 5.0 before that, not even on that level at all but fun to drive for sure. More like a driving a Ford Crown Vic though lol.

Funny how the Voodoo is both the attraction and the repellent on the decision making. The Voodoo will never be as reliable as these GM engines we have spoken of, and in the Voodoo's defense I dont think it should be expected.

The Voodoo is way more aggressive and high strung compared to a more subdued lower RPM engine like an LT1. GM basically released an updated version of the LS3, and Ford released the biggest production FPC ever. Kudos to Ford for pushing the envelope big time here and taking a risk to be first to do that. It has resulted in a VERY desirable car, even if there are inherent issues or fears with longevity. That said, all my friends with GT350's bought it for the handling and have no clue what an FPC is, so there is that too hahahaha.

Wonderful cars, would be a great buy at mid to low 50's, but I would never own one of of warranty because that is basically a race car engine that I dont want to pay to fix when it inevitably blows up whether thats like my friends car at 10K miles, or 100,00 miles I just dont want to be caught paying for a new Voodoo.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Cf version, Base version, whatever. The one they ran was a $94K car which will be more after options are added in. And it ran 11.4. The Base being faster has nothing to do with how this one performs. At that price there should be more than a driver's race difference between it and the ZL1 when both are subjected to the same testing regardless of the track. But there isn't. All that remains is to see what happens around a track. And frankly, I don't think it will have the stuff to win. Yet it costs more than what a fully optioned Z06 3LZ costs. So I have nothing left to debate.

For the record, I did say that even the Redeye at $90K+ was too much for these types of vehicles. The only difference between the RE and the GT500 is that the Shelby handles better. But it is still way too expensive. Both are. And I'll give the Base version it's due. Sure, on a prepped track in great conditions it went 10.6. But the RE went 10.88 in similar conditions while the ZL1 did 10.9.

So I pretty much have all the info I need. Ford did do a great job. I will give them that. But in all truth, they merely just caught up to the rest of the competition. In a way it isn't their fault because the competition made leaps and bounds over the past few years. Dodge already reached the traction limits of RWD cars and Chevy proved what a very well designed car can do. By the time Ford got here there really was nothing left to accomplish except showing they can do it too.

Just FYI C&D got 11:80 @ 125 out of the RE during their review.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I wonder what their take is on the C8 Z51 doing 3 tenths faster (11.1 vs 11.4). I'm just waiting for someone to get a C8 and break into the 10s.

THIS.

With all the praising of the GT500 and what it can do with 760 HP @ $74K, you would think everyone, even the self proclaimed "car guys", would be losing their minds at what the C8 does with 495 HP @ $60K. THAT is much more impressive than the GT500, and honestly makes the 500 seem a bit disappointing as you have said.

I get the interest, the 500 is an awesome car and fits very competitively in the segment, and we don't even have track times yet, so the potential to impress even more is there.

That said, I also don't really see what people are so wild about. People are acting like something about the 500 is groundbreaking and it isn't at all. It is just another awesome choice in an already awesome and competitive segment, and it is the LAST to the market.

The ME Vette though, THAT is groundbreaking, new, and very impressive for the money. VERY.

Ford will likely never have an answer for the C8, with that ME, it is like Ford is in 2020 and GM is in 2040, from a performance standpoint. The GT500 will rarely beat the C8 on the streets, if ever considering the ease of traction in a ME layout.

Ford: "OMG, look at our new GT500 it's so amazing and only costs $74K!"
GM: "Hold my beer."

The 500 would be way more fun to drive though, I will admit that, and that is very very important in a buying decision. Does it make it worth $74K? Not to me personally, especially with only a DCT option.

Honestly though, all these cars are really freaking awesome.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Just FYI C&D got 11:80 @ 125 out of the RE during their review.

HAHAHAHA....OUCH! That was unprepped I assume? That trap speed is way low regardless.

I would love to see a H2H with all three. But lets get some proper drivers please.