[DorkMissile]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

oldman

And finally, our billet checkvalves are guaranteed to hold over 100# of boost and not fail:
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/categories.php


These have been out for a year now and must be used on turbo or centrifugal SC applications on the intake manifold side.

I tried multiple times to get ahold of Elite when having problems - obviously I had the previous eBay check valves that failed (purchased in 8/18), and no support documentation to install it on my application (LT1, M6 with Vortech S/C). I was emailed and called Elite on 12/1/18, didn't hear anything until 12/24. And when I did - I got instructions on how to mount a different can on a different car.

The best design in the world can be made to look bad with the choice of the wrong components and ignoring those who need help. Unfortunate for me I guess - I bought a couple of months before the update, so I guess I was SOL.

Its a shame - my E2 can has been sitting in a box since Jan of 19 because I went with he can my tuner recommended (I didn't buy thru him, just went with what he knew worked). Headache solved.

[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by DorkMissile

I tried multiple times to get ahold of Elite when having problems - obviously I had the previous eBay check valves that failed (purchased in 8/18), and no support documentation to install it on my application (LT1, M6 with Vortech S/C). I was emailed and called Elite on 12/1/18, didn't hear anything until 12/24. And when I did - I got instructions on how to mount a different can on a different car.

The best design in the world can be made to look bad with the choice of the wrong components and ignoring those who need help. Unfortunate for me I guess - I bought a couple of months before the update, so I guess I was SOL.

Its a shame - my E2 can has been sitting in a box since Jan of 19 because I went with he can my tuner recommended (I didn't buy thru him, just went with what he knew worked). Headache solved.

I tried contacting Elite multiple times via several different avenues (email addresses from their site, contact form on their site, etc) trying to get info on which of their cans would be best for my car, no reply at all (even though they were taking plenty of time to post their propaganda all over the forums), it made me realize if I bought their product I probably would get similar (complete lack of) support (if they wouldn't talk to me when I was trying to give them money why would they be any more responsive after they have money?).

No thanks... I went with the Mishimoto and have been very happy with it...

[oldman]

yep there is some minimal amount of pressure that builds up to vent. At or near WOT and especially with FI there is NO engine vacuum so the PVC is NOT working. The exact same amount of air is being moved in the crankcase as being ingested by the engine at WOT, even more, is being moved part throttle. This movement of air causes pressure waves, I honestly done know what the PSI or Kpa these waves are, but I do know the factory PVC does not function at this point. When will I blow out my seal? At or near WOT, what will prevent that? Many and large holes to the atmosphere, preferably at the top of the engine.

PVC at part throttle, I assume parts of the engine like the top valley are under a slight vacuum, I would assume places like the top of the valve cover to be at atmospheric. How much dunno, but the factory PVC hose is tinny. the oil from the cans when settled look reasonably clean, so I don't know how much cleaner engine oil will stay with a functioning PCV vs vent. Assuming that PCV "pulls" out say 2 oz more oil over 8,000 miles vs vent (got no idea).

Racing, I don't know of any race cars that have a "passive" PVC, especially FI. I do know of some that run mechanical vacuum pumps that actually increase their draw with RPM. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cvs-vp625

There are track rules that require that oil / oil vapor be caught vs dump, but these are safety rules, not performance rules.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Also, you're going to get a ton of condensation out of the cans since the water vapor has a place to condense, especially in cold weather.

What you are looking for is the filtering efficiency and a big collection cup (or a gravity fed auxiliary tank) to hold all the condensates between draining.

Then why does the Moroso have very little water? To me that would mean the elite filter is too good, it is condensing water during operation, instead of letting the water vapor burn in the intake tract.

[Goohead]

I’ll take you up your office, have a Whipple w/ MM wild catch can setup. Willing to try yours in line for 1-2k miles. Just provide setup instructions once sent

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

oldman, why would you want pressure to build and vent instead of pulling full time suction so pressure can never build in the first place? Can you show us any examples of Professional Racing that vents? (besides the stock and superstock classes that do not allow the advantages of an evacuation system).


And the ones that watched the video, did you not see Moroso only trapped drops that got past the Patented design we use? And our design trapped more than the Moroso AFTER it did its best? Water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter is what we trap. NONE of that should be left in your crankcase or ingested in the intake air charge.


And look inside the MM can....how can that trap even half of what enters it if it is nothing but an empty canister with brillo pads inside? Can anyone discuss the technical aspects?


And so all understand how the test is conducted, here are the steps:


Start out with both cans to be test clean of all oil residue.


Install our design AFTER the can you feel does a good job.


Run the car at least 1000 miles (2000 is better for a more accurate average of driving).


Drain each and document how much they each caught.


Clean each of all oil and gunk, and install our design i, and the other can second. Drive the exact same style for the exact same miles. Drain both again. The MM lets more through than it traps, and our design caught AFTER it did its best, then in reverse, the MM only trapped droplets in comparison.


So who here touting a MM would conduct this test with NO cheating or bias? We will provide our can for the test as long as it is conducted fairly and accurately.


And again, Venting pressure that is allowed to first build is NOT evacuating. Evacuating is a suction source pulling (sucking out) the contaminants and never allowing pressure to build in the first place.


And finally, our billet checkvalves are guaranteed to hold over 100# of boost and not fail:
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/categories.php


These have been out for a year now and must be used on turbo or centrifugal SC applications on the intake manifold side.

[Elite Engineering]

Originally Posted by oldman

Then why does the Moroso have very little water? To me that would mean the elite filter is too good, it is condensing water during operation, instead of letting the water vapor burn in the intake tract.

As we had explained earlier, water is released during the high pressures and heat of the combustion process. It does NOT burn as you had stated...and if your referring to Meth/Water injection with forced induction, that is the evaporation that cools the intake air charge. That can benefit by cooling, but the water also cannot burn, so it has a negative effect on the combustion process and the energy released. Here is from an SAE paper on this:



"How does humidity affect combustion?
An increase in humidity reduces the burn rate and increases the combustion duration. This increase in combustion duration has the same effect as retarding the time of ignition. Thus the thermal efficiency is reduced. Additionally, the engine is more likely to misfire as humidity increases."


So, the mistaken assumption that water is in anyway able to burn in the combustion process is completely false. As Professional Racers, we measure every possible factor in the air at the track where were competing. This is done in grains, and the higher the moisture content, the less power we will make all things considered. So the Moroso is not trapping it because of how ineffective the design is.


You want NO combustion by-products as part of the intake air charge. And with that Water we are trapping is Sulfuric acid and much more with NO benefit to including it in the air charge.


There is no such thing as "too effective". The ideal goal is zero byproducts, but to achieve more than the 95% of our latest system design, you would need to incorporate a centrifuge and more complex filtration system like Alfa Laval or Racor sell for industrial engines.


And again we see the same few complain about our service? We post this every few days. By phone, as we are all Engineers here working we do NOT have a dedicated employee for the phone. We have found it is far more effective to provide our Technical Support by email. That email is NOT Sales@EliteEngineeringUSA.com That is for ordering only. Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com is staffed nearly 24/7 and the customers that do use this give us praise all the time. So PLEASE use Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com for any technical, guidance in ordering the correct system for your application, and for installation help....and we offer this free for ANY evacuation questions whether you bought from us or not. This is how our operations have worked the best as people can simply go back to saved mail and review. And you can also download directly from our Installation Instruction section and or watch the videos of many.


So if you have not used our posted contact info, odds are you won't get a response. Sales does sales. They are not the ones that do the engineering and design work. Engineering and Technical support is where we put our focus.


Hope I did not miss any questions. We again will ALWAYS have as prompt of responses from those trained and qualified to provide correct guidance available at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com


If we did miss any questions, please ask. There is so much confusing misinformation and assumptions floating around that those that DO want to learn get confused when the "keyboard" experts chime in. And again, we are providing the documentation and references to verify. NO one else is sharing anything technical, only assumptions, and at the money invested in your engine you need facts that can be validated and verified.



Cheers!

[Elite Engineering]

Goohead
Horsepower whisperer

Email me direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com and will go over details. This will be great for all to follow what occurs.


Thanks!

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by oldman

Then why does the Moroso have very little water? To me that would mean the elite filter is too good, it is condensing water during operation, instead of letting the water vapor burn in the intake tract.

Oil floats on water.....

Dial in 13:47 on that video. It shows a close up of the jar from the Moroso. 2 oz of water on the bottom. 2 oz of water/oil sludge on top. Since the can was full, it shot the other 2 oz of mostly water (and a wee bit of oil on top because of the parting line).

Any time you take 212*F steam and remove 970 btu/lb it will become 212*F water. Take a mirror and breather on it. The moisture condenses. Same with any catch can.

Also, the Moroso container is smaller than the Elite. If you allow either one to fill up they're going to puke the extra out of the outlet side.



That being said, If I had to choose between the 2, I think the Elite has MUCH better filtration. Besides, the water isn't the problem to worry about. It's the oil getting back in the chamber. THAT is what GM is trying to control to prevent detonation.

[Elite Engineering]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Also, the Moroso container is smaller than the Elite. If you allow either one to fill up they're going to puke the extra out of the outlet side.


That being said, If I had to choose between the 2, I think the Elite has MUCH better filtration. Besides, the water isn't the problem to worry about. It's the oil getting back in the chamber. THAT is what GM is trying to control to prevent detonation.