Any GM techs here with experience using GM GDS2?

[InFiD3ViL]

I have an MDI setup and GDS2 (Tech2Win also). I am using GDS2 to troubleshoot an ongoing drivers window issue. I frequently lose the UP function on the window. Very rarely it will randomly work. Like every 2-3 days.

I have already cleared indexing in GDS2 and attempted manual relearn, but nogo, since I cannot manually close the window to complete the process. I can fully control the windows via GDS2 commands on both normal and express functions, but it is failing at the switch. I thought at first that it was a bad regulator/motor assembly, but since I can fully control via the GDS2/laptop, I don't think so now. This all started with me losing indexing every single time I started the car. I would reindex only to lose it after the next key cycle.

When I check the GDS2 data display, it shows me pressing Express UP but not Normal Up. Normal UP never registers and shows inactive when using the switch. So that has me thinking either bad switch or wiring issue on the Normal Up circuit. I have not test probed with the door panel off yet, that is next. I will attempt to jump the UP function, bypassing the switch. This will tell me if is in the wiring or not. Hopefully it is not the BCM, but if it is I will pay the $40 two year subscription for TIS2Web and just program my own new one.

DTC read only shows window is not indexed, no faults otherwise.

Thanks in advance, although I fear I am unlikely to get any hits on this.

[Greenhornet2]

sounds like the switch to me.

[Sxren_Camaro'13]

Originally Posted by Greenhornet2

sounds like the switch to me.

yeah maybe the switch to make it go up got pulled to far and broke and glitches

[canadian ss]

Sounds like a switch problem to me as well. Do your tests on it. The motor and regulator function through the command of the switch and not on their own. The window switch is also a module (computer).

[InFiD3ViL]

So to update this, I found my old spare switch, same issue. Nogo. I pulled the door panel and switch off and jumped the passenger window just to test and could locate the correct pins and the window went up and down. Tried the driver side pins, same behavior as always, no 'UP'. So it is confirmed now it isn't the switch unfortunately.

Probed the ground running from the driver side kick panel, through the door jamb, into the X500 connector that connects to the door harness at all points and had a good ground, which is expected since other door functions wouldn't work if I had bad ground. Pulled the main ground connection off and cleaned it and the X500 pins and added a bit of dielectric. Just figured would be good to test and clean.

So I am left with 2 possibilities now. It is either the BCM or the window motor. It doesn't make a lot of sense why it would be the motor since I can command it with GDS2 using my laptop, but I don't really know the CANBUS functions on this car that well and maybe when using GDS2 it overrides something in the window motor. BCM passes all DTC checks.

But one way or the other, when running diags in GM GDS2 (Newer Tech 2 like software GM uses for our cars for those that are not familiar) it doesn't register a regular UP command via the switch, yet Express (Pulling the window switch fully) does register, but wont open the window without the 'Normal' command being registered by the BCM/window motor. I know that window motor has its own brain as well and has ability to sense window position and some other stuff.

I am wondering if maybe since it always had to reindex the windows every key cycle if it messed something up with the motor or something, or if it has been messed up all along. I am at a loss.


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BCM is only 1 year old, driver door harness, and window switch also 1 year old.

[tazman]

I'm not a car technician but an electrician with decent troubleshooting skills. Since when you jump the switch it doesn't work like the passenger but you can control it with the computer so I would say your problem is after the switch on the control side. Now if it sounds like you are using the BCM to control it and you say there is still a window control module then there is a chance the window control module is faulty. I would check for power on the window up wire at the point where it enters to pass it's signal to the control module to verify the wire is good. I would think the wire is good though since the other problem you were having with the indexing and that makes me think of the window control module is bad.

[InFiD3ViL]

Originally Posted by tazman

I'm not a car technician but an electrician with decent troubleshooting skills. Since when you jump the switch it doesn't work like the passenger but you can control it with the computer so I would say your problem is after the switch on the control side. Now if it sounds like you are using the BCM to control it and you say there is still a window control module then there is a chance the window control module is faulty. I would check for power on the window up wire at the point where it enters to pass it's signal to the control module to verify the wire is good. I would think the wire is good though since the other problem you were having with the indexing and that makes me think of the window control module is bad.

I hadn't even thought of that. I will test that harness tomorrow, thank you.

The only other thing I could think of is that maybe when it is being controlled by my GDS2/laptop, somehow the BCM overrides something in the window motor to 'force' it Up/Down - bypassing whatever it is that is keeping it from being operated manually...if that makes sense.

Because I use my car as a daily I had to buy a giant bag of those white trim tabs that keep the interior door panel on. They keep breaking every time I take the dang panel off lol, even with a trim tool.

It just gets so frustrating because. Even if I manage to get my window fully up, every time I open the door it will lower the window 1-2 inches. After opening the door 4-5 times, it is fully opened. It makes it a pain in the ass to go to the store too.

[tazman]

But one way or the other, when running diags in GM GDS2 (Newer Tech 2 like software GM uses for our cars for those that are not familiar) it doesn't register a regular UP command via the switch, yet Express (Pulling the window switch fully) does register, but wont open the window without the 'Normal' command being registered by the BCM/window motor. I know that window motor has its own brain as well and has ability to sense window position and some other stuff.

What you stated right there is what makes me think it is a problem on the control side before the BCM which I would think involves the wiring and the window control module.

[InFiD3ViL]

Originally Posted by tazman

But one way or the other, when running diags in GM GDS2 (Newer Tech 2 like software GM uses for our cars for those that are not familiar) it doesn't register a regular UP command via the switch, yet Express (Pulling the window switch fully) does register, but wont open the window without the 'Normal' command being registered by the BCM/window motor. I know that window motor has its own brain as well and has ability to sense window position and some other stuff.

What you stated right there is what makes me think it is a problem on the control side before the BCM which I would think involves the wiring and the window control module.

I hope you are right man, and I suspect you are. I am so ready to be done with this.

[tazman]

I know it would drive me nuts and I can never find enough documentation to trace stuff like this down. Unfortunately I guess it could still be on the input side of the BCM if all the output functions come from the BCM. Good luck figuring out, I ope you get it and its something easier like a damaged wire.

[InFiD3ViL]

I forgot to post this from an old post of mine. This shows a little bit of the weird behavior once the window has fully gone down. That part where is does that 3 times is the result of pushing the down button one time once the window is already fully down. It's getting to where the $150 for the regulator/motor assembly seems worth it just to find out if that's it or not. I just hate throwing parts at something without proper diagnosis.

The constant indexing issues and this behavior leads me to believe the car has no idea where the window is. Now I just need to determine for certain where this info is stored/processed.

[InFiD3ViL]

Figured I would update the thread here. I decided to delay the window fix last week and complete my cam swap first and just use the laptop to get the window up. But cam swap is done, so...

I can confirm it is NOT the motor/regulator assembly. I won't mention names, but a member here assisted me with some invaluable troubleshooting info. It is really looking like I have another bad wire. Only issue is I have no idea where yet, but I have my suspicions.

GM dealer repaired the main ground wire for the door controls last year. But when that happened I lost all driver's door controls, not just window. It was due to water infiltration from the sunroof drain getting into that wire bundle in the door jamb and corroded the ground wire. The Normal UP function wire also passes through that same bundle, passing directly into the BCM.

So I now need to test that wire in different spots or just replace it all together, but I will jump it first with a temp wire to make sure. Then I need to get this water issue sorted out. Such a nightmare because there is practically no working room behind the kick panel.