[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I think there's been a shift at least in some places of leadership/direction...enough to result in this refresh being so drastic.

Are you talking personnel or are you talking targets and objectives? Personnel has not changed that I can tell. Chief Engineer, Asst. Chief Engineer, Program Manager, Marketing Directors and Managers, Product Development Leadership, are all the same. Not totally certain about Design. I’m pretty sure that John Mack has been involved at some level all along but I can’t recall if his role is the same as it was for Gen 6 V1.

If it is in terms of strategic focus, maybe. I don’t know. Been gone a year. But what I can say without getting in trouble (I hope) is that when I was still there “leadership” was pretty much defined as having the best performing car in the segment delivered profitably. Winning the sales crown would be great, but secondary. And within that, retail sales where the eventual owner chooses the car over competitors was deemed more important than fleet sales. I am not aware of that changing with this refresh, but to significantly change that approach would probably require fundamental changes in the car that could only be delivered through a Program Major. It will be interesting to see if the approach is still the same for Gen 7.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

i saw his facebook page, it's more than 90% negative comments. he only replied to one guy and said 'i see you don't own a 5th or 6th gen'
so basically come back to the potential customers with insults

People were personally attacking him. That was not cool. Customers, or no. I actually feel pretty bad for him, the way people were acting.

And an observation isn't an insult...no need to sensationalize it. A lot of people have opinions on things that don't affect them, and depending on your "skin in the game"...some may as well just keep quiet.

[AZCamaroFan]

i really didn't see many personal attacks, and the guy he answered didn't attack him personally.

[NYJets12]

What gm should have done is put more room in the back seat . People who didn’t buy it for that reason may buy it now. Just make the car a bit longer so the front seat room doesn’t shrink . And a digital dash wouldn’t hurt either.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

People were personally attacking him. That was not cool. Customers, or no. I actually feel pretty bad for him, the way people were acting.

And an observation isn't an insult...no need to sensationalize it. A lot of people have opinions on things that don't affect them, and depending on your "skin in the game"...some may as well just keep quiet.

Well said. Tons of folks express "expert opinions" or criticism on blogs and social media in general just for entertainment value of stirring the proverbial pot. With zero intention of ever purchasing a product. This is very prevelant on many car blogs where trolls (some representing professional "marketing" efforts by competition ) post BS just to spoil the party. Heck they apparently can even sway election results...

[iPODFAN11]

Honestly...it pains me to say this, but the more I keep staring at it, the less...weird/strange/offensive/ugly it becomes to me. I think a LOT of it, as usual, comes from GM's craptastic press shots they put together. Outlets that have been reporting on the T4 1LE drives, the base front looks good actually, although camoed up. The only decent shot they did of the SS it that top down style head on shot.

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by NYJets12

What gm should have done is put more room in the back seat . People who didn’t buy it for that reason may buy it now. Just make the car a bit longer so the front seat room doesn’t shrink.

There was no chance of that happening. But yes, hopefully for Gen 7 they increase interior space

[Papa Smurf]

Not feeling the new design. Tailights look to much like from the Chevy Malibu when it already had Corvette like-Design taillights. The front end almost looks like a dodge dart now on the SS Models. The 1LE looks meh...And i agree with the headlight strip. Looks like a part in the LED Strip...is burnt out. Listen GM. Come to this Forum and you'll hear what Camaro Enthusiasts/Owners want. Its almost as if Chevy tried to hard to stand out in the crowd when they had already succeeded on the 5th and 6th gen. I saw more changes in the 2019 model update compared to the new revamped look of the the 5TH Gen to the 6th Gen. I wish they increase the Hp/torque more on the turbo model. Atleast GM kept their V6 in the Camaro's unlike Ford dropping theirs altogether in their mustangs and focusing more on 4 banger/v8. I Like what the turbo mustangs did. Touched up on front end and focused more on performance increase on their turbo when the 1LE Turbo camaro just gets a face lift. No increase in specs. Just Same. But they keep focusing on cosmetic touches and improvements. Come on GM. Get with the Program. If it aint Broke, then dont fix it.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

There was no chance of that happening. But yes, hopefully for Gen 7 they increase interior space

I think interior space is great as it is. It is a sport car not a family hauler afterall.
They need to reduce weight vs increase it. Plus an average number of occupants per vehicle is 1.55 statistically. Regardless of vehicle type, including big honking trucks and 7 seat suvs...

[6spdhyperblue]

It’s true if you need the room get the challenger. If they’re all the same size we lose variety

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

Not feeling the new design. Tailights look to much like from the Chevy Malibu when it already had Corvette like-Design taillights. The front end almost looks like a dodge dart now on the SS Models. The 1LE looks meh...And i agree with the headlight strip. Looks like a part in the LED Strip...is burnt out. Listen GM. Come to this Forum and you'll hear what Camaro Enthusiasts/Owners want. Its almost as if Chevy tried to hard to stand out in the crowd when they had already succeeded on the 5th and 6th gen. I saw more changes in the 2019 model update compared to the new revamped look of the the 5TH Gen to the 6th Gen. I wish they increase the Hp/torque more on the turbo model. Atleast GM kept their V6 in the Camaro's unlike Ford dropping theirs altogether in their mustangs and focusing more on 4 banger/v8. I Like what the turbo mustangs did. Touched up on front end and focused more on performance increase on their turbo when the 1LE Turbo camaro just gets a face lift. No increase in specs. Just Same. But they keep focusing on cosmetic touches and improvements. Come on GM. Get with the Program. If it aint Broke, then dont fix it.

It has been broke for 3 yrs... Sales never saw a pick up when the gen6 came out and now have pretty much tanked compared to competition. Btw Mustang seems in the same sinking boat after the latest refresh. GM had to do something different as doing more of the same never leads to better results. So they changed the overall look of the car completely. Styling is subjective and only sales numbers will prove if their refresh choices were correct or not. Personally i see a lot of retro split bumper cues on the SS grille and dont mind it at all. But it is a very different look thats for sure.

NB theyve raised the height of the front splitter. A lot.
So this also contributes to a very different look. Less aggressive imo but easier on the curbs. Thats proly why they went with an extractor hood to increase front downforce and why they added Vette like rubber dams below the splitter...

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by iPODFAN11

Honestly...it pains me to say this, but the more I keep staring at it, the less...weird/strange/offensive/ugly it becomes to me. I think a LOT of it, as usual, comes from GM's craptastic press shots they put together. Outlets that have been reporting on the T4 1LE drives, the base front looks good actually, although camoed up. The only decent shot they did of the SS it that top down style head on shot.

It's called acclimatization.

e.g., when the Subaru B9 Tribeca was unveiled at the NAIAS [I was there at the sheet-pull], there were literal gasps of horror at how atrocious it looked. Is it any better looking now that we've had over a decade to mellow on it? No, it's still heinous. We're acclimatized to it, but that doesn't make it look any better. There are plenty of designs that do not stand up over the test of time. The Edsel, the Jeep Cherokee (KL), Buick Rendevous, Fiat Multipla, Toyota Mirai, etc.

Most of the time with a refresh or new-gen, people were expecting the same aesthetic, so any change is different. For many people in this country, change = fear = hate. For the few of us that can separate change from emotional lower brain responses, it's easier to look at it analytically and see if it's a change that improves anything, merely stirs things around, or violates classical design rules.

There are also the people that idolize marketed icons, such as the Transformers 5 Bumblebee Camaro this facelift is based on. They believe that since it's in a movie, it must be good. This works if they're ignorant to the science of design and accept being manipulated by marketing. There are also people that feel crazy = good, and facets that violate design rules are "sticking it to the man", or that they're discovering something heretofore undiscovered in the design world. Chris Bangle made his waves in 2002 with the BMW 7-er and subsequent designs he was responsible for. They were polarizing and attention grabbing, which is good marketing, but only one has remained well-proportioned, if still a bit fussy; the E85 Z4.

For sure people will acclimatize to this facelifted gen6 Camaro SS. The LT refresh is much more digestible and moves the needle without resorting to offenses.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by iPODFAN11

Honestly...it pains me to say this, but the more I keep staring at it, the less...weird/strange/offensive/ugly it becomes to me. I think a LOT of it, as usual, comes from GM's craptastic press shots they put together. Outlets that have been reporting on the T4 1LE drives, the base front looks good actually, although camoed up. The only decent shot they did of the SS it that top down style head on shot.

For me all these changes blend into a non-offensive, unobtrusive, politically correct design update that makes one not even notice the car on the road. Not overly craptastic, but nothing to desire either, and it now looks much like everything else.

[Papa Smurf]

I hear you. And yes, i can agree with the sale tanking. I just dont understand why they can change the look of the vehicle and not tune the car a little more performance wise on the lower trim under the SS. Especially the turbo models when under the hood, it has so much more potential. However mpg may plummet. Looks/Design will ony go so far regarding Sales. But performance spec-wise increases will please both the consumer and sales looking for a change in engine spec/cosmetic tweaks.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

It has been broke for 3 yrs... Sales never saw a pick up when the gen6 came out and now have pretty much tanked compared to competition. Btw Mustang seems in the same sinking boat after the latest refresh. GM had to do something different as doing more of the same never leads to better results. So they changed the overall look of the car completely. Styling is subjective and only sales numbers will prove if their refresh choices were correct or not. Personally i see a lot of retro split bumper cues on the SS grille and dont mind it at all. But it is a very different look thats for sure.

NB theyve raised the height of the front splitter. A lot.
So this also contributes to a very different look. Less aggressive imo but easier on the curbs. Thats proly why they went with an extractor hood to increase front downforce and why they added Vette like rubber dams below the splitter...