[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

The vast majority of the difference in performance between the GT350R and regular GT350 is the carbon fiber wheels, which are crazy expensive, not the tires (although they do make a significant difference). AND, you can't compare the regular GT350 with a carbon fiber wheel upgrade to a 1LE without the same upgrade. Why not compare a stock GT350 to a 1LE with a carbon fiber wheel upgrade? Or both with carbon fiber wheels. Are you trying to stack the deck here?

It’s funny, I have yet to see any data showing exactly how much of the GT350Rs performance advantage comes from the wheels VS tires, have you? You do also realize that the R sports .5 inch wider tires in the front and back don’t you?

As for the rest of your rhetoric, It’s a bit difficult to discern the point you are trying to make. I’d love to respond, but quite frankly, I don’t understand what your point is.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I stated this earlier in this thread, but perhaps you missed it:

The 2018 GT350/GT350R will have NO CHANGES other than available colors. NONE! No upgraded tires, no suspension or chassis upgrades from the PP2 or whatever, no flux capacitor, no Saturn V rocket engines, no "whatever you are going to make up next" either. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. This is straight from Ford. You get some different choices in color. That's it. End of story.

I didn’t miss it.

Do you honestly think that Ford is going to equip the GT PP with better tires than the GT350? You do realize don’t you that Michelin is phasing out the MPSS that was on the 15-17 GT350 in favor of the new (better) PS4 don’t you.

While ford did release a statement to dealers noting no changes will be done, some (such as the tires) have to be. It’s not far-fetched to believe they will sneak in a few minor upgrades either. This would not be the first time a manufacturer made updates without notifying the public.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

But it will be even heavier (all that stuff is going to add some weight), it will still have an inferior chassis and base suspension.

LOL, based on what information? You have no clue if it’s going to be heavier or lighter. It is quite possible they offset any weight gains with the sheet metal and chassis changes. What you are saying is pure speculation, not fact as you have presented it. You do realize they will be offering lighter weight forged wheels don’t you (tons of un-sprung weight in there)? The same goes with the “inferior chassis” comment. Is it inferior? Who the hell knows. If it is able to get close to or match the 1LE performance, you could argue the chassis could be equal. Hey, I recognize the alpha platform as being phenomenal, but the “alpha platform” superiority complex is huge in here.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Will it be faster than a comparably equipped SS? Time will tell... We need to see how much bump the HP and TQ get, and how much the 10 speed auto helps.

Quite possibly, the only thing I agree with you on in here. IMHO, the 10 speed is going to provide a serious bump in acceleration performance.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Will it be faster than a 1LE? Not on your life. Why? Because that would make it faster than the non-R GT350. That ain't going to happen.

I have yet to see any information with a head to head between the 1LE and GT350 non R. Will it be faster than the 1LE? Again, who the hell knows. With a similar power to weight ratio, similar suspension, better tires…it quite possibly could down to tenths.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by IOMike

Wow this thread is salty.

Very lol. I won't be let down if the 18 GT PP comes out slower than the 1LE...as I don't/won't own either. I'm not a huge fan of presenting speculation as facts though.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I have yet to see any information with a head to head between the 1LE and GT350 non R.

I doubt Ford would allow it...they can't have a what, $12,000+ cheaper car beat their halo track car.

I would love to see a head to head though, but we can compare some test numbers. CD did test a non R GT350 against a C7 Z51, and the SS 1LE's braking, skidpad, 0-60, and 1/4 mile numbers were all better. I know you will say like you always do, different day, different time, yada, yada, but some of the differences are decently large, they do correct for DA, and some stats aren't really even affected by that...and if you want to get technical, the CD numbers for the SS 1LE aren't even as good as the MT numbers, that bettered the below 0-60 and skidpad times.

SS 1LE:

0-60: 4.1
1/4: 12.4 @ 116
Skidpad: 1.05 g
Braking from 70: 141'

GT350:

0-60: 4.3
1/4: 12.5 @ 119
Skidpad: 1.00 g
Braking from 70: 171'

My point is the '18 GT PP2 or whatever it is called, won't even come close to the SS 1LE, and I seriously doubt Ford would let it get tooooooo close to a GT350.

[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

SS 1LE:

0-60: 4.1
1/4: 12.4 @ 116
Skidpad: 1.05 g
Braking from 70: 141'

GT350:

0-60: 4.3
1/4: 12.5 @ 119
Skidpad: 1.00 g
Braking from 70: 171'

but but but but

flat plane crank

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

better tires

What, the GT PP2? How do you figure? The new Goodyear Supercar 3 tires are pretty awesome, (test numbers can back this), and I've never even seen a comparison between them and anything Michelin. Not to mention, even if the GT PP2 gets the latest and greatest Michelins, they are a decent amount narrower as it seems to have the same wheels as the last GT PP no?

So what is that 255/275 vs 285/305? That alone is a big difference and would equalize things if the new Michelins prove to possibly be that good. Just too much speculation...either way, I don't see the GT PP2 as it looks on paper so far even coming close to the SS 1LE. It may match a regular SS on run flats now...that's it.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I doubt Ford would allow it...they can't have a what, $12,000+ cheaper car beat their halo track car.

I would love to see a head to head though, but we can compare some test numbers. CD did test a non R GT350 against a C7 Z51, and the SS 1LE's braking, skidpad, 0-60, and 1/4 mile numbers were all better. I know you will say like you always do, different day, different time, yada, yada, but some of the differences are decently large, they do correct for DA, and some stats aren't really even affected by that...and if you want to get technical, the CD numbers for the SS 1LE aren't even as good as the MT numbers, that bettered the below 0-60 and skidpad times.

SS 1LE:

0-60: 4.1
1/4: 12.4 @ 116
Skidpad: 1.05 g
Braking from 70: 141'

GT350:

0-60: 4.3
1/4: 12.5 @ 119
Skidpad: 1.00 g
Braking from 70: 171'

My point is the '18 GT PP2 or whatever it is called, won't even come close to the SS 1LE, and I seriously doubt Ford would let it get tooooooo close to a GT350.

Not going to rehash most of the arguments. This is going to be a giant...wait and see game. The real question is, when will the head to head be?

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

What, the GT PP2? How do you figure? The new Goodyear Supercar 3 tires are pretty awesome, (test numbers can back this), and I've never even seen a comparison between them and anything Michelin. Not to mention, even if the GT PP2 gets the latest and greatest Michelins, they are a decent amount narrower as it seems to have the same wheels as the last GT PP no?

So what is that 255/275 vs 285/305? That alone is a big difference and would equalize things if the new Michelins prove to possibly be that good. Just too much speculation...

Doesn't the 1LE come with the supercar 1 tires?

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/art...-packages.html

Semantics, maybe...I have seen some of the results and they appear to be excellent.

You are correct, the GT PP will have a width deficit (yes, it sounds terrible). I would absolutely concede any advantage the GT has using the PS4s, I forgot how girthy the 1LE's shoes were.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Not going to rehash most of the arguments. This is going to be a giant...wait and see game. The real question is, when will the head to head be?

I doubt it will happen unless they get private owners cars...

Most likely we will see the SS 1LE vs the GT PP2, which would make sense as those cars are the true competitors of one another.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Doesn't the 1LE come with the supercar 1 tires?

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/art...-packages.html

Semantics, maybe...I have seen some of the results and they appear to be excellent.

You are correct, the GT PP will have a width deficit (yes, it sounds terrible). I would absolutely concede any advantage the GT has using the PS4s, I forgot how girthy the 1LE's shoes were.

Mine has Supercar 3 tires...

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I doubt it will happen unless they get private owners cars...

Most likely we will see the SS 1LE vs the GT PP2, which would make sense as those cars are the true competitors of one another.

Hopefully they don't pair another automatic VS manual if they do.

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Mine has Supercar 3 tires...

Odd, I wonder why the discrepancy. Type maybe.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Hopefully they don't pair another automatic VS manual if they do.



Odd, I wonder why the discrepancy. Type maybe.

I'm sure they would do manual vs manual...


The link you posted just says that they have Goodyear Supercar tires, it doesn't say Supercar 1....pretty sure you can't even get the 1's anymore unless they are leftovers.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I'm sure they would do manual vs manual...


The link you posted just says that they have Goodyear Supercar tires, it doesn't say Supercar 1....pretty sure you can't even get the 1's anymore unless they are leftovers.

Interesting...must be going

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

It’s funny, I have yet to see any data showing exactly how much of the GT350Rs performance advantage comes from the wheels VS tires, have you? You do also realize that the R sports .5 inch wider tires in the front and back don’t you?

As for the rest of your rhetoric, It’s a bit difficult to discern the point you are trying to make. I’d love to respond, but quite frankly, I don’t understand what your point is.

Not to be a smart ass or anything, but just because you didn't see something, and think that is funny, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have seen many things, from Randy Pobst stating how much a difference the carbon fiber wheels on the GT350 make to articles where folks tested the differences, like here:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/tested-...-fiber-wheels/

And simple physics. Reducing rotational mass reduces inertia in an exponential relationship, not a linear one. The impact of reducing the rotational and unsprung mass by 58 lbs. has a huge impact. Not an opinion, just the facts. Please do some research if you haven't seen enough data. Google is your friend. There is plenty of data out there showing the benefits of lighter wheels.

I didn’t miss it.

Do you honestly think that Ford is going to equip the GT PP with better tires than the GT350? You do realize don’t you that Michelin is phasing out the MPSS that was on the 15-17 GT350 in favor of the new (better) PS4 don’t you.

While ford did release a statement to dealers noting no changes will be done, some (such as the tires) have to be. It’s not far-fetched to believe they will sneak in a few minor upgrades either. This would not be the first time a manufacturer made updates without notifying the public.

I'm not a huge fan of presenting speculation as facts though.

I though you said you were sticking to the facts and not speculation? When a manufacturer states that no changes will be made for the next model year except color, that is the fact. What you wrote is pure speculation. HUGE speculation. You stated in another thread that you were sure that Ford would put the upgraded chassis bracing on the GT350. I can assure you, they are not. Are you going with speculation or facts? More than likely, as you said, the tires will eventually have to be upgraded, but it seems as though they are not for now. We will see.

LOL, based on what information? You have no clue if it’s going to be heavier or lighter. It is quite possible they offset any weight gains with the sheet metal and chassis changes. What you are saying is pure speculation, not fact as you have presented it. You do realize they will be offering lighter weight forged wheels don’t you (tons of un-sprung weight in there)? The same goes with the “inferior chassis” comment. Is it inferior? Who the hell knows. If it is able to get close to or match the 1LE performance, you could argue the chassis could be equal. Hey, I recognize the alpha platform as being phenomenal, but the “alpha platform” superiority complex is huge in here.

Again, I went by the pure facts. Yes, I forgot to mention the forged wheels, (I did mention that in another thread somewhere), and it makes a big difference. Glad Ford is offering those. But, you are speculating that Ford could have made other changes to offset the weight increase of adding more content to the car. I am stating the fact that if Ford made such efforts, it would be in the press release, because weight is a big deal. Do you think Ford would add DI/PI, MRC, NPP, etc. to the Mustang, and then make it the same weight or lighter than before, and NOT mention that? The fact is, there was no mention of weight, so the only facts are, the weight went up. How much, we don't know. But, it went up. Otherwise, Ford would be patting themselves on the back on that (as well they should).

As for the chassis, all you have to do is drive both, and you can see that the Mustang chassis has more movement than the Camaro. I can feel it in the steering as well. You should be able to see it as well, if you have driven both.

I have yet to see any information with a head to head between the 1LE and GT350 non R. Will it be faster than the 1LE? Again, who the hell knows. With a similar power to weight ratio, similar suspension, better tires…it quite possibly could down to tenths.

I too, would love to see this particular Head to Head. But, for what it's worth, I still think the GT350 will be a bit faster, especially on a larger track where the extra HP can come into play. If they were the same price and same performance, and the Ford didn't have the issues it does, I would probably buy the Ford, just for the high revving engine. As it stands though, I'm not a big fan of how Ford is handling the GT350 issues, so I'm glad I didn't get one. For now.

[khell86]

I wonder if the GT350 will get the new MP tires like the GTPP does.