[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by Silveradoss573

.

And the good news is, of course, we have it :-)

Imagine if you have the freedom to be able to go out and order an EV at the same time as your ICE sports car. Incredible times we live in lol

[Mark R]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Nobody is forcing anyone to sell anything. That's kinda the beauty of this. You're making it seem like people are being coerced by the big bad G-Men to immediately sell off their ICE vehicles for EVs right now.

You're not. You can keep it as long as you'd like, and for as long as you're willing to pay the fossil fuel prices.

Ill sell my Camaro when I'm ready to sell it. Just like you can. I imagine you'll be long dead before ICE vehicles are banned. Settle down.

My fundamental complaint is that deliberate design, fuel, and performance constraints are being imposed on the ICE vehicles that will be bought in the near future, in what is already the cleanest society on earth, effectively terminating new ICE cars, while the rest of the world spews out the majority of global pollution.

The feds just imposed a 55 MPG standard, excluding electric vehicles, on auto fleets starting in 2026. It an unnecessary assault on the common man's mobility and choices, and it's a force-feeding of a technology that should by rights grow organically as demand rises, like every other industry.

I'm not looking forward to the EV future.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by Mark R

My fundamental complaint is that deliberate design, fuel, and performance constraints are being imposed on the ICE vehicles that will be bought in the near future, in what is already the cleanest society on earth, while the rest of the world spews out the majority of global pollution.

The feds just imposed a 55 MPG standard, excluding electric vehicles, on auto fleets starting in 2026. It an unnecessary assault on the common man's mobility and choices, and it's a force-feeding of a technology that should by rights grow organically as demand rises, like every other industry.

I'm not looking forward to the EV future.

Because ICE is dying. Whether you like it or not. The sooner you accept that, the better. Either we can drive people's interests and push faster toward that, or we can be luddites and not change anything just because that's the way it's always been.

Also, not wanting to do our part simply because "the other guys" aren't doing their part is a weak excuse, too. Why SHOULDN'T we be trying to lead the way? And on that note, we aren't even in the top 10 of "cleanest" countries in the world.

Our precious, roaring V8's will be a thing of the past in decades. Enjoy it, as I will, while we can. My Camaro will likely be my last hoorah. It might even get traded in on my new truck, who knows.

[Mark R]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Because ICE is dying. Whether you like it or not. The sooner you accept that, the better. Either we can drive people's interests and push faster toward that, or we can be luddites and not change anything just because that's the way it's always been.

Also, not wanting to do our part simply because "the other guys" aren't doing their part is a weak excuse, too. Why SHOULDN'T we be trying to lead the way? And on that note, we aren't even in the top 10 of "cleanest" countries in the world.

Our precious, roaring V8's will be a thing of the past in decades. Enjoy it, as I will, while we can. My Camaro will likely be my last hoorah. It might even get traded in on my new truck, who knows.

I know. I feel like one of those who lamented the demise of the steam locomotive.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mark R

My fundamental complaint is that deliberate design, fuel, and performance constraints are being imposed on the ICE vehicles that will be bought in the near future, in what is already the cleanest society on earth, effectively terminating new ICE cars, while the rest of the world spews out the majority of global pollution.

The feds just imposed a 55 MPG standard, excluding electric vehicles, on auto fleets starting in 2026. It an unnecessary assault on the common man's mobility and choices, and it's a force-feeding of a technology that should by rights grow organically as demand rises, like every other industry.

I'm not looking forward to the EV future.

The interesting thing here is that before that happened, all the major automakers were:

• Setting target dates for when they would be 30%, 40%, 75%, 100% electric
• Setting target dates for when they would make their operations carbon neutral
• Publicly stating how many tens of billions of dollars they were investing on EV and battery technology development

And all that was BEFORE the 2020 elections when a different president was in office, even though that president relaxed the regulations.

They are actually performing way ahead of the legislation. So they are not doing it because the mean old nasty government is telling them what to do. They’re doing it because they have recognized that it is what they need to do to compete in the global market. When global automakers have to produce EVs in China in order to sell vehicles and compete in the world’s largest market, then that’s what they are going to do. Then they have to decide if they are going to make EVs just for China and ICE for everywhere else. Then Europe starts to grow the EV development. Same decision all over again. Jaguar is going all electric. Land Rover has been selling hybrids in Europe for years and is about to add EVs. Rolls Royce has EVs in their development cycle. Lamborghini and Ferrari are developing EVs. McLaren is about to launch another hybrid and is developing EVs.

So now you have all these companies that are building EVs for China, EVs for Europe, and they have to figure out what they are going to develop and sell for North America. Guess what they’re gonna do. You know those EVs they’re developing for China and Europe? They’re gonna bring them to North America. So the automakers in North America have to decide if they’re gonna play the same game. They’ve decided. They’re all in. GM was first, Ford decided to go all EV for Europe, then a few months later said”aw hell, may as well make it global” so they’re all in. The power seat for Stellantis is in Europe, so no surprise what they’re gonna do, Hemi or no Hemi.

I’ve over-simplified it a lot, but the bottom line is, all automakers, including GM, Ford, and FCA/Stellantis are way out ahead of where US regulations would have them in terms of bringing EVs to market and at least GM and Ford have been there since BEFORE Biden took office, so blaming the government is just way off course.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’ve over-simplified it a lot, but the bottom line is, all automakers, including GM, Ford, and FCA/Stellantis are way out ahead of where US regulations would have them in terms of bringing EVs to market and at least GM and Ford have been there since BEFORE Biden took office, so blaming the government is just way off course.

I agree blaming Biden is ridiculous, he just took office.

However, I'd argue that governments the world-over have implemented policy to push EVs and much of that is based on the fantasy that EVs are zero-emission vehicles.

EVs are certainly the future but it could be reasonably argued that current technology isn't better than ICE in carbon emissions or overall environmental impact. Especially long-range and/or crazy-fast EVs that have massive batteries.

That said, this is my new EV, I feel this is the best use of battery tech right now.

[serper3]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

The Work truck version of the Silverado is $39,9 to start - if you are concerned about money and don't need features, get that...it'll be just as sparse as a normal 1500.

The vast majority of people who buy trucks don't do truck things with them. Cater to your audience.

We will see when the work truck will actually be available, and what its range will be. 400 miles, i doubt it at that price.

its not just towing. i hunt, ride dirt bikes and am often hours away from the nearest paved road. not going to work for people into outdoorsy stuff yet.

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

The first Tesla vehicle was $109K, you can now get a model 3 for $45K. Once the larger manufacturers start mass producing these vehicles, the prices will plummet.

model 3 isnt a huge truck that gets a range of 400 miles though. even the model 3 long range estimate is in the lower 300s.

the material costs currently are what they are and scale already is significant with the large manufactures with the leaf, bolt, etc. the tech needs to get better for better range, cheaper cost, and faster charging. not even talking about all the people living in apts or condos without the infrastructure to charge at home or work.

[6spdhyperblue]

The model 3 is a bmw 3-series with a spacer lift, not a truck

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I agree blaming Biden is ridiculous, he just took office.

However, I'd argue that governments the world-over have implemented policy to push EVs and much of that is based on the fantasy that EVs are zero-emission vehicles.

And you would be correct. China and European Union governments are the ones pushing (very successfully) the electrification agenda. Auto manufacturers are shifting their strategies to be compliant with those requirements, and then extending the resulting products to North America. The US is no longer the 800 lb-gorilla in the auto world. More like the clever chimpanzee that learns quickly from watching what’s going on everywhere else in the world (except Africa, South America, and Middle East). Peel the onion back one more layer and it’s evident that the motivating issue is global carbon emissions. Automakers realize this, as well as the Transportation Sector impact on carbon emissions and are now tripping all over each other to declare plans for carbon neutrality in order to remove themselves from the “problem child” column.

Originally Posted by DaveC113

EVs are certainly the future but it could be reasonably argued that current technology isn't better than ICE in carbon emissions or overall environmental impact. Especially long-range and/or crazy-fast EVs that have massive batteries.

That said, this is my new EV, I feel this is the best use of battery tech right now.

The key is current technology. This is why automakers and top tier suppliers are publicly declaring tens of billions of dollars in investment towards development of making electric vehicles and the processes that produce them more efficient, less carbon intensive, and more environmentally friendly. The reason they are doing this through public declarations is that it signals to the rest of the industry that they are going down this path and that they need to get on the train.

Example: GM says “We are going to invest $27B over the next seven years to invest in and launch 30 new EVs. By 2035 we will only offer zero emissions passenger vehicles” (this was while Trump Administration was reducing emissions regulations, by the way)

LG Chem sees that and goes “Hey GM, need some help developing battery technology? Let’s build a battery plant together”.

Aptiv (formerly Delphi) sees that and thinks “maybe we oughta step up our game on electric motor technology development”

Steel and aluminum manufacturers see that and think “we need to talk to those guys and start developing chassis integral battery boxes. Probably need to develop them to be as lightweight as possible, but with improved strength characteristics”

Charging station manufacturers see that and say “let’s talk about the best places to locate charging stations. While we’re at it, why don’t we get together to make sure your vehicles can work on our network”

All of this is happening right now. So, the “current technology” as we see it today will not be the technology we see 3-5 years from now. It will be much improved, much more efficient, much more environmentally friendly.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by AMOR

Says guy who "ordered 6.2 liter sports car" lol

And that's what I despise, people who try to act like they really care about the environment while driving a big V8 or similar engines that burn a lot of fuel.

At least don't be a hypocrite, be honest with yourself. If you really give that much of a crap, get off the forum and buy an EV.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

And that's what I despise, people who try to act like they really care about the environment while driving a big V8 or similar engines that burn a lot of fuel.

At least don't be a hypocrite, be honest with yourself. If you really give that much of a crap, get off the forum and buy an EV.

I won't be going anywhere, thanks.

I am honest with myself: I won't be putting on 12-15K miles a year onto my Camaro, because I'll be tooling around in my electric truck most of the time. It's likely it'll just be a nice weather warrior. I might even get bored of it and sell it with the truck purchase, who knows.

Whether you like it or not, I, too, can spend my money as I please. For right now, there are no fun EV sports coupes out there for "me", and I want to downsize right now while my trucks value is good.

Buying a Camaro right now doesn't mean I "don't give a crap." You don't NEED to be either extreme of the spectrum: either a super-polluting asshole who gives no f-cks, or an extreme tree-hugger. But at least be intelligent enough to realize that ICE is going away, and it's coming quick.
Either get ready for that, or get out of the way. And right now, anyone desperately trying to do anything they can to stop EV progress is just in the way.

[Martinjlm]

I guess I’m schizophrenic. I have a Camaro SS and a Chevy Volt in my garage. And one o’ these days that Volt is gonna be replaced by a Cadillac Lyriq or some other BEV.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by serper3

We will see when the work truck will actually be available, and what its range will be. 400 miles, i doubt it at that price.

its not just towing. i hunt, ride dirt bikes and am often hours away from the nearest paved road. not going to work for people into outdoorsy stuff yet.



model 3 isnt a huge truck that gets a range of 400 miles though. even the model 3 long range estimate is in the lower 300s.

the material costs currently are what they are and scale already is significant with the large manufactures with the leaf, bolt, etc. the tech needs to get better for better range, cheaper cost, and faster charging. not even talking about all the people living in apts or condos without the infrastructure to charge at home or work.

You missed the point. I wasnt comparing a EV Truck to a model 3. I said the first Tesla vehicle was $109k and now you can get a Model 3 for $45k that performs just as well as the original. I said the price will come down.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I guess I’m schizophrenic. I have a Camaro SS and a Chevy Volt in my garage. And one o’ these days that Volt is gonna be replaced by a Cadillac Lyriq or some other BEV.

You disgusting hypocrite. You can pick one or the other, not both. /s