[NG329]

Originally Posted by rickybobby

I really feel like stock pads fit the bill for what you are describing. Race pads won’t necessarily last much longer and will cost more. Are you fading them or is your complaint that they aren’t lasting long enough.

If you are set on a race compound than you really should just bite the bullet and swap them out for track days to get the best of both worlds. Just my .02 cents.

I wholeheartedly agree here! I've used stock pads all the way from Novice to Expert. They will get the job done and if you bed them in properly they will take care of your rotors.

Oh and uh...... Brake Less = Go Faster!

[Canyonero]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

High torque pads absolutely produce more heat, especially on tracks with short straights incapable of sufficiently cooling them (DDT, TMP, etc). Been there done it and had 4 wheels smoking and almost carching fire. Not recommended 😀

Thanks TrackClub for sharing this. I feel a little less crazy now. I had a similar experience smoking the driver's front at TMP with the OE SC3s. Mosport GP is easy on brakes and I often get bad smell even in early sessions. I'm not standing on the brakes or anything. I see two bars light up on PDR. The R16 pads feel too grabby even when you jack the car and spin the wheel by hand.

I ordered a set of Ferodo DS1.11 - will report back. Might be while getting them cross-border and all. I the meantime, I'll just lift earlier on focus on the line.

Thanks everyone!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by NG329

I wholeheartedly agree here! I've used stock pads all the way from Novice to Expert. They will get the job done and if you bed them in properly they will take care of your rotors.

Oh and uh...... Brake Less = Go Faster!

+1

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Canyonero

Thanks TrackClub for sharing this. I feel a little less crazy now. I had a similar experience smoking the driver's front at TMP with the OE SC3s. Mosport GP is easy on brakes and I often get bad smell even in early sessions. I'm not standing on the brakes or anything. I see two bars light up on PDR. The R16 pads feel too grabby even when you jack the car and spin the wheel by hand.

I ordered a set of Ferodo DS1.11 - will report back. Might be while getting them cross-border and all. I the meantime, I'll just lift earlier on focus on the line.

Thanks everyone!

1.11 is a good race pad with a flat torque line, so easy to modulate re trail braking etc. It is still quite a bit more aggressive vs stockers, so keep that in mind. A good thing is, that it is Ferodos longest lasting compound. I had used it on my C5Z track car for a bit many years ago and liked it. Mind you, I had modded brake system with AP Racing kit, cooling, etc. And the Vette was some 800lb lighter...When I went up to DSUNO I had to rebuild calipers every season (20-25 track days).
Not surprised you had issues with R16: it is very aggressive and its life span is short (by design).
Last piece of advice: do NOT hesitate to go back to stockers, as they are very capable all way to "expert" and I can guarantee they will not impact your pace in the least. A good and safe upgrade would be DS2500 which is one step up from stockers, but then again, ask yourself a question: why?
Have fun and enjoy learning the car and the craft! Cheers!

[Canyonero]

Follow up after the Ferodo DS1.11 install. They were extremely noisy on the street until the first track day. Noise has gone away totally after an HPDE. Maybe something to do with the bedding process.

On track, the initial bite took me by surprise and I had to adjust my pedal application to be more gentle at first. They feel way more consistent than the G-LOC R16s. They gave me confidence to break later with more force. Took 2.5 seconds off my PB

I did smell "burned metal" coming into turn 5 at Mosport a couple times. Not sure if that's normal from heavy breaking in general or if there is still too much heat generated?

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Canyonero

Follow up after the Ferodo DS1.11 install. They were extremely noisy on the street until the first track day. Noise has gone away totally after an HPDE. Maybe something to do with the bedding process.

On track, the initial bite took me by surprise and I had to adjust my pedal application to be more gentle at first. They feel way more consistent than the G-LOC R16s. They gave me confidence to break later with more force. Took 2.5 seconds off my PB

I did smell "burned metal" coming into turn 5 at Mosport a couple times. Not sure if that's normal from heavy breaking in general or if there is still too much heat generated?

Normal, my 3.12s were really smelly for a while and still are a little bit at half worn.

IMO track pads are worth it over OEM HP1000, if just for feel, consistency and not needing as much pedal pressure. It's easy to switch between the two, no re-bedding required if both are Ferodo.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Canyonero

Follow up after the Ferodo DS1.11 install. They were extremely noisy on the street until the first track day. Noise has gone away totally after an HPDE. Maybe something to do with the bedding process.

On track, the initial bite took me by surprise and I had to adjust my pedal application to be more gentle at first. They feel way more consistent than the G-LOC R16s. They gave me confidence to break later with more force. Took 2.5 seconds off my PB

I did smell "burned metal" coming into turn 5 at Mosport a couple times. Not sure if that's normal from heavy breaking in general or if there is still too much heat generated?

Congrats on your new PB! Nice!!! Now here's the rub: resisit a temptation to give credit to the pads (seriously, this would be completely counter productive at Mosport). Heat causes brakes to stink. Whether it is excessive, or not, is another question, which you will have an answer to soon enough. Yep they can be very noisy as a DD pad, especially when it is cooler outside. Also, they are designed to start biting at much higher temps, so be careful when it gets cooler outside with cold brakes, as stopping power will be vastly reduced.
Happy motoring and have bags of fun! Cheers!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Normal, my 3.12s were really smelly for a while and still are a little bit at half worn.

IMO track pads are worth it over OEM HP1000, if just for feel, consistency and not needing as much pedal pressure. It's easy to switch between the two, no re-bedding required if both are Ferodo.

Totally agree.

Plus, I really don’t think there’s any way the stock pads can handle slicks if someone is driving really hard with them.

I noticed the pedal started to feel differently on my car with SC3Rs annd stock pads, the car seemed to take longer to slow down as well, after they got hotter, motor trend said they also got brake fade on the ZLE at area 27

[GunMetalGrey]

The Hawk DTC 60 and 70’s have not been noisy for me on the street and have had excellent cold bite even though I know they are not designed to, however, I just found out the hard way that if somebody does not wash the dust off the wheels, but still gets the wheels wet, it starts to form a hard concrete like substance, which is very hard to get off!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Totally agree.

Plus, I really don’t think there’s any way the stock pads can handle slicks if someone is driving really hard with them.

I noticed the pedal started to feel differently on my car with SC3Rs annd stock pads, the car seemed to take longer to slow down as well, after they got hotter, motor trend said they also got brake fade on the ZLE at area 27

I agree, that stockers may be far from ideal for slicks, but much will also depend on a venue and ability to cool things down (or not), between corners. Brake fluid will also play a role here. A great example of a moderate upgrade sufficing for slicks is Eric (Provoste), who not only ran slicks often, but also DTC60s, which I would not consider an "uber" pad by any means. Yet, he established many forum track records for a stock SS 1LE.

In a case of Canyonero, pads should really not make a difference assuming he's is running stock rubber (which he should given his experience level) and on a track which is the fastest in N America. Meaning, momentum is king and there is really just one corner (T3), which requires harder braking. Others are low effort, more to point the car in, with 2 requiring moderate level at best (T5 and T8) and that's assuming one is pushing the car and truly maxing the mid corner pace. And then there is the fastest corner (T4) which requires zero braking. So, bottom line: there is not a heck of a lot of hard braking going on.

ZLE has more of a disadvantage given the power and weight. I wonder if GM changes the brake fluid for those mag tests 😀

Cheers!

[Canyonero]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

In a case of Canyonero, pads should really not make a difference assuming he's is running stock rubber (which he should given his experience level) and on a track which is the fastest in N America. Meaning, momentum is king and there is really just one corner (T3), which requires harder braking. Others are low effort, more to point the car in, with 2 requiring moderate level at best (T5 and T8) and that's assuming one is pushing the car and truly maxing the mid corner pace. And then there is the fastest corner (T4) which requires zero braking. So, bottom line: there is not a heck of a lot of hard braking going on.

Cheers!

To clarify this point for those following. The GLOCs R16s that I was previously using were heating up so much that I would lift really early to reduce the brake effort. At a smaller track (TMP), I would sometimes notice smoke coming from the driver's side at the end of a session.

Most of the difference in lap time came from having the confidence to accelerate longer and brake later. I probably stay WOT for an extra 20-30 yards going into T8 at Mosport now.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Canyonero

To clarify this point for those following. The GLOCs R16s that I was previously using were heating up so much that I would lift really early to reduce the brake effort. At a smaller track (TMP), I would sometimes notice smoke coming from the driver's side at the end of a session.

Most of the difference in lap time came from having the confidence to accelerate longer and brake later. I probably stay WOT for an extra 20-30 yards going into T8 at Mosport now.

TMP is a very good test for the brakes in general, as there are veey limited opps to cool them down and at the same time there are several hard braking zones. What brake fluid do you use?

For sure confidence matters re lap times, but it could be a two edged sword if the confidence increases faster than skill and ability to feel what the front and rear tires are doing slip angles wise. Do you run in Race setting?

Also, at Mosport, what will reward lap times is higher mid corner speed, as by and large the corners are long and one spends a lot more time cornering vs braking. Especially in T8, T2, T3 and T5a and b combo, which is treated as a single corner. Also dont forget when approaching T5a you are climbing up 3 stories, so surprisingly one doesn't need to brake very aggressively and carrying the speed until the set up for 5b yields good benefits laptime wise. As far as T8, when you brake is not all that important vs how much speed you're carrying into it and then maintaining until T9. Have bags of fun hope it helps ya a bit. Cheers!

[Canyonero]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

TMP is a very good test for the brakes in general, as there are veey limited opps to cool them down and at the same time there are several hard braking zones. What brake fluid do you use?

For sure confidence matters re lap times, but it could be a two edged sword if the confidence increases faster than skill and ability to feel what the front and rear tires are doing slip angles wise. Do you run in Race setting?

Also, at Mosport, what will reward lap times is higher mid corner speed, as by and large the corners are long and one spends a lot more time cornering vs braking. Especially in T8, T2, T3 and T5a and b combo, which is treated as a single corner. Also dont forget when approaching T5a you are climbing up 3 stories, so surprisingly one doesn't need to brake very aggressively and carrying the speed until the set up for 5b yields good benefits laptime wise. As far as T8, when you brake is not all that important vs how much speed you're carrying into it and then maintaining until T9. Have bags of fun hope it helps ya a bit. Cheers!

At TMP I used SRF with PTM in Sport 2. Haven't been back there since the new pads went in. Appreciate all the advice here

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Canyonero

At TMP I used SRF with PTM in Sport 2. Haven't been back there since the new pads went in. Appreciate all the advice here

SRF is uber albeit the most expensive choice. Note, that Sport 2 turns off all Stability Control and just retains a milder version of Traction Control to manage rear wheel spin. So, you may as well go to Race mode, which offers race calibrated TC for exits.
Having said that, on a track like Mosport, if you get pear shape it is 100% up to you to make any yaw corrections (with both Race and Sport 2 modes). Cheers!