02-09-2020, 03:06 PM | #589 |
Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hilo, HI
Posts: 4,316
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As an example of warranty, way back in the day, if you got a 440 6 pack manual (or hemi) you got a Dana 60 with 9.75" ring. My 440 Dart auto came with and 8 and 3/4 I believe it was the big pinion one but I digress. Anyway I knew my bro and I would race it day in and day out for decades, so we went with a Dana 60 and 4.10 gears, rebuildable clutch posi. Over the decades of abuse, I rebuilt the clutch pack a few times mainly for grins, but the rear showed ZERO wear. I feel the same way about the ZL1 and 1le, that is an incredably overdesigned diff. Ford I assume is still running the same 8.8, which like the Mopar 8 and 3/4 ain't bad. But is is not a 11" ring diff, so I can see from this one example alone why Chevy can warranty stock stuff for racing and Ford is going to have a tough row to hoe as we are basically talking about a liquid cooled clutch manual here, sooner or later with traction something is going to let go. Right now it seems to be the clutch pack, but the entire drivetrain IMO (assuming it is an 8.8 diff) is subject to just not having enough size to cope with a manual. Dodge did so many upgrades to the Challenger rear diff as HP increased. Like I said it in my assumption Ford is running the 8.8 diff. Note a small ring gear gets way weaker way faster as you go up the numeric ratios. I believe the Demon is 9.06 and depending if we are talking Demon, red eye etc, I sold my supercharged Challenger so I've been long gone from Dodge we 2.62 or 3.09 which means it is a HUGE pinion as pinion size is directly proportional to how many turns it takes to walk the ring. I can actually calculate the load but jut feeling a 3.73 in a 8.8 housing is only 2/3 as the surface area and moment arm total as a 2.62 gear in a 9.06 housing, and maybe closing on 1/2 when compared to a 2.85 in the 10.9 Zl1 diff.
Sure I know I gong hear from a Ford guy that his 8.8 was a DD for 2 decades and ran 9s every weekend with 4.56 and never even hummed... OK then. The 8.8 is an OK rear, but it was designed for much lower power levels and weights. Dodge went to an auto and a stronger diff and runs really tall gears which are stronger for any given ring size. GM went to Dana 60 sized diff in a new modern design snail housing (much stronger IMO) and Ford, dunno seems they went with a trifecta for issues: small ring, manual (DCT), and steep gears 3.73. So I would expect there will be diff issues too. IMO the 8.8 diff is drastically under engineered in this application, I would call the 2.62 Dodge diff at 9.06" and an auto adequately engineered and GMs 10.9 diff, OMG, engineered to deliver a factory warranty at racing events, especially on the manual. As a complete aside, I always wondered if GM warranties for racing the ZL1 convertible as it runs the SS's 8.6 diff, I would assume it is running the Chevy performance driveshaft and axle shafts which are ZL1 shafts that fit the 8.6. Still the 8.6 maybe shacky with a manual and zl1 convertible and drag racing. That said the snail case 8.6 looks to be a very stong piece indeed. So in this one instance, the Zl1 convertible manual has an OK design. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/thr...-gt350.104766/
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
Last edited by oldman; 02-09-2020 at 03:40 PM. |
02-09-2020, 03:22 PM | #590 | |
Drives: 20 1LE 2SS M6 Rally Green Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Franklin WI
Posts: 6,632
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"the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” Ronald Reagan - |
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02-09-2020, 03:41 PM | #591 | |
Drives: 22 ZL1, 20 Taco, 20 Cayenne S Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: MN
Posts: 624
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02-09-2020, 03:42 PM | #592 |
Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hilo, HI
Posts: 4,316
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designed and driven from the factory did NOT come with slicks or 00 wear drag radials LOL. going to be expensive, bet the 8.8 starts humming too, just before it sings.
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
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02-09-2020, 03:45 PM | #593 | |
Drives: 2017 2SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Billings MT
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02-09-2020, 04:36 PM | #594 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,191
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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02-09-2020, 04:38 PM | #595 | |
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS, 2013 Mustang GT Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: New York
Posts: 132
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Same thing as GM's warranty, you can take the Mustang to a "track day" but not timed competition racing. I thought this was old news. |
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02-09-2020, 04:43 PM | #596 | |
Drives: 18 ZL1-1LE, 10 JKU Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: AR
Posts: 583
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and i totally agree, it could happen at any of the big 3 dealers in my area too, but what i experienced from my 350 ordeal was simply it's own kind of special lol. |
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02-09-2020, 04:47 PM | #597 | |
Drives: 18 ZL1-1LE, 10 JKU Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: AR
Posts: 583
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the new wording would make me a little gun shy. |
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02-09-2020, 04:50 PM | #598 |
Drives: 2013 C6Z06 Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 1,577
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Especially since driving on public roads is track driving now
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02-09-2020, 04:54 PM | #599 |
Drives: The DSSV Twins: ZR2 and ZLE A10 Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: TX
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Ford's says not covered under "track use" though. GM has a trackday prep guide for all 1LEs. Am I missing something? (I may be. Don't know.)
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02-09-2020, 05:06 PM | #600 | ||
Drives: 22 ZL1, 20 Taco, 20 Cayenne S Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: MN
Posts: 624
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GMs (and via Al O. IIRC) is at least very up front. Don’t change a thing and you are covered. Fair enough for me at least. |
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02-09-2020, 05:09 PM | #601 |
Drives: 22 ZL1, 20 Taco, 20 Cayenne S Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: MN
Posts: 624
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02-09-2020, 05:11 PM | #602 |
Drives: 22 ZL1, 20 Taco, 20 Cayenne S Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: MN
Posts: 624
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@ZRacerLE, very clever and very interested as to the responses.......
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