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Old 02-09-2020, 03:06 PM   #589
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As an example of warranty, way back in the day, if you got a 440 6 pack manual (or hemi) you got a Dana 60 with 9.75" ring. My 440 Dart auto came with and 8 and 3/4 I believe it was the big pinion one but I digress. Anyway I knew my bro and I would race it day in and day out for decades, so we went with a Dana 60 and 4.10 gears, rebuildable clutch posi. Over the decades of abuse, I rebuilt the clutch pack a few times mainly for grins, but the rear showed ZERO wear. I feel the same way about the ZL1 and 1le, that is an incredably overdesigned diff. Ford I assume is still running the same 8.8, which like the Mopar 8 and 3/4 ain't bad. But is is not a 11" ring diff, so I can see from this one example alone why Chevy can warranty stock stuff for racing and Ford is going to have a tough row to hoe as we are basically talking about a liquid cooled clutch manual here, sooner or later with traction something is going to let go. Right now it seems to be the clutch pack, but the entire drivetrain IMO (assuming it is an 8.8 diff) is subject to just not having enough size to cope with a manual. Dodge did so many upgrades to the Challenger rear diff as HP increased. Like I said it in my assumption Ford is running the 8.8 diff. Note a small ring gear gets way weaker way faster as you go up the numeric ratios. I believe the Demon is 9.06 and depending if we are talking Demon, red eye etc, I sold my supercharged Challenger so I've been long gone from Dodge we 2.62 or 3.09 which means it is a HUGE pinion as pinion size is directly proportional to how many turns it takes to walk the ring. I can actually calculate the load but jut feeling a 3.73 in a 8.8 housing is only 2/3 as the surface area and moment arm total as a 2.62 gear in a 9.06 housing, and maybe closing on 1/2 when compared to a 2.85 in the 10.9 Zl1 diff.

Sure I know I gong hear from a Ford guy that his 8.8 was a DD for 2 decades and ran 9s every weekend with 4.56 and never even hummed... OK then. The 8.8 is an OK rear, but it was designed for much lower power levels and weights. Dodge went to an auto and a stronger diff and runs really tall gears which are stronger for any given ring size. GM went to Dana 60 sized diff in a new modern design snail housing (much stronger IMO) and Ford, dunno seems they went with a trifecta for issues: small ring, manual (DCT), and steep gears 3.73. So I would expect there will be diff issues too. IMO the 8.8 diff is drastically under engineered in this application, I would call the 2.62 Dodge diff at 9.06" and an auto adequately engineered and GMs 10.9 diff, OMG, engineered to deliver a factory warranty at racing events, especially on the manual.

As a complete aside, I always wondered if GM warranties for racing the ZL1 convertible as it runs the SS's 8.6 diff, I would assume it is running the Chevy performance driveshaft and axle shafts which are ZL1 shafts that fit the 8.6. Still the 8.6 maybe shacky with a manual and zl1 convertible and drag racing. That said the snail case 8.6 looks to be a very stong piece indeed. So in this one instance, the Zl1 convertible manual has an OK design.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/thr...-gt350.104766/
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Last edited by oldman; 02-09-2020 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:22 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by Silveradoss573 View Post
Page 70 has the warranty info. To me it looks pretty clear on what is/isn't covered. I've seen others state that Ford will cover them on track but I don't see that in the warranty info.

https://www.mustang6g.com/downloads/...Supplement.pdf

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Old 02-09-2020, 03:41 PM   #591
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Wow, what a kick in the nuts (or other non male specific parts). Spend thousands over MSRP and read that......
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:42 PM   #592
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designed and driven from the factory did NOT come with slicks or 00 wear drag radials LOL. going to be expensive, bet the 8.8 starts humming too, just before it sings.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:45 PM   #593
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So it's a 94k+ CFTP non track car lol.
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:36 PM   #594
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or tweak the car in any way. Interesting on the test / tune drag part, the stock tires no matter how good the track prep will only yield so much launch. A slick will give a better launch but at a massive load on the trans, in specific, there are wrinkle wall slicks specially made to help manual trans drivetrains live longer. It is hard to believe that a DSG would hold a warranty on the drivetrain when slicks (or 00 wear DR) are installed. As I stated in the first comment, I could see maximum torque parameters being flag in the ECU.
NOW I get your point. If they have set up the transmission to save itself when certain parameters are reached and they have an incidence where the transmission pushed beyond that point, it might be evidence of using 00 tread DRs and possibly other modifications or modifying to eliminate the safety default.
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:38 PM   #595
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Same thing as GM's warranty, you can take the Mustang to a "track day" but not timed competition racing.

I thought this was old news.
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:43 PM   #596
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I wonder if they almost had to due to the amount of bad motors and the advertising of the most track capable Mustang ever etc (or else another lawsuit). Because corporate sure didn’t want to replace mine without a lot of testing. I was also one of the early ones with a 16. By the time the 17s and 18s came along it seemed like they streamlined and sped up the process quite a bit.

FWIW to our Ford faithful here and lurking from M6G, I have no doubt people have horror stories dealing with GM as well. I obviously hope I don’t have to go down that road because it really does suck. These are supposed to be fun and none of them are cheap. It is pain when the toys become a massive headache. I know first world issues.
it makes ya wonder if they are trying to relinquish a little responsibility there, especially when the motor warranty repair bill was nearly half the cost of the car(30k all said and done) and how many our eyes have seen them do. that math just cannot work out well in ford's favor...then add in all the lemons...

and i totally agree, it could happen at any of the big 3 dealers in my area too, but what i experienced from my 350 ordeal was simply it's own kind of special lol.
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:47 PM   #597
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Originally Posted by TreedYou View Post
Same thing as GM's warranty, you can take the Mustang to a "track day" but not timed competition racing.

I thought this was old news.
do you know the past verbiage by chance? because i thought it used to say "timed event"(something along those lines)...making HPDE perfectly fine, along with a test and tune night. just saying "track" now is pretty vague.

the new wording would make me a little gun shy.
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:50 PM   #598
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Especially since driving on public roads is track driving now
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Old 02-09-2020, 04:54 PM   #599
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Originally Posted by TreedYou View Post
Same thing as GM's warranty, you can take the Mustang to a "track day" but not timed competition racing.

I thought this was old news.
Ford's says not covered under "track use" though. GM has a trackday prep guide for all 1LEs. Am I missing something? (I may be. Don't know.)
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:06 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by jvandy50 View Post
it makes ya wonder if they are trying to relinquish a little responsibility there, especially when the motor warranty repair bill was nearly half the cost of the car(30k all said and done) and how many our eyes have seen them do. that math just cannot work out well in ford's favor...then add in all the lemons...

and i totally agree, it could happen at any of the big 3 dealers in my area too, but what i experienced from my 350 ordeal was simply it's own kind of special lol.
That’s exactly what I was thinking for the new wording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandy50 View Post
do you know the past verbiage by chance? because i thought it used to say "timed event"(something along those lines)...making HPDE perfectly fine, along with a test and tune night. just saying "track" now is pretty vague.

the new wording would make me a little gun shy.
Agreed, I definitely don’t remember my GT350 manual being that vague. It was something along the lines of competitive timed racing was cause for a voided warranty. Not just “track use.” Ford is in such disarray right now and hemorrhaging money it doesn’t surprise me they snuck a massive change like that in there.

GMs (and via Al O. IIRC) is at least very up front. Don’t change a thing and you are covered. Fair enough for me at least.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:09 PM   #601
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Especially since driving on public roads is track driving now
Although agreed and , I’m letting it go if the other side truly does.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:11 PM   #602
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@ZRacerLE, very clever and very interested as to the responses.......
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