[BlaqWhole]

http://sscc.us/results_sscc_2019.aspx

Posting again. Look at the high trap results. Well over 200 MPH for some.

This is something I would love to participate in.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by LESS1

"That was easy"

Actually, it was.

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

You lease all of your cars??? Say it isn't so.

Do you lease or buy or finance your cars?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

actually it evolved into the meaning of a road course, please stop grasping at straws, there are serious flaws with the GT500, for instance the DCT in the Vette is limited to 590 lbs torque and limited to 7500 RPM on the input shaft. It could be as simple as that. I know it is a different trans, just point out there are limits to DCT that are somewhat unexpected.

I think we'll be seeing a lot more of those flaws very soon. Already there are some experiencing issues with the GT500. We'll see how the C8s hold up. When I get mine I'll post updates on any issues that might pop up.

One thing tho...Dodge with their HC engines set the redline at 5750 and the limiter at 6200. The RE was extended up to 6500. The ZL1 is limited to 6500 RPMs. So is it possible that at the RPM needed to make 760 HP on the GT500, the engine has problems pushing a car this heavy? Or perhaps the fueling can't keep up? Or maybe it isn't drawing in enough air? Or it could be the DCT or diff. Whatever the case, Ford was not exactly forthcoming.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think we'll be seeing a lot more of those flaws very soon. Already there are some experiencing issues with the GT500. We'll see how the C8s hold up. When I get mine I'll post updates on any issues that might pop up.

One thing tho...Dodge with their HC engines set the redline at 5750 and the limiter at 6200. The RE was extended up to 6500. The ZL1 is limited to 6500 RPMs. So is it possible that at the RPM needed to make 760 HP on the GT500, the engine has problems pushing a car this heavy? Or perhaps the fueling can't keep up? Or maybe it isn't drawing in enough air? Or it could be the DCT or diff. Whatever the case, Ford was not exactly forthcoming.

You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out that the GT500 can go more than 180 if the limiter was off and it was kept stock.
Its 760hp we are talking about, it's not going to "stop" pulling at 180 just like any other 700+ hp car.
The 662hp 2014 GT500 did 197 or something like that if I remember correctly so why wouldn't 100 more HP do the same?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

What's funny is the PP2 lightning lap time is the only one the M6G crowd doesn't invoke the 'same day same driver' rule..

The conclusion from the PP2 Lighting Lap article clears up how the 1LE compares to it.

it's clear that the Performance Pack Level 2 is Ford's way of making sure the Camaro 1LE doesn't run off with the roses while the Mustang is still kicking up dirt on the track. To that end, it succeeds and frankly, in terms of track prowess, is far more accomplished than we could have imagined. Still, it trails the Camaro SS 1LE in terms of almost-supernatural reserves of dynamic capability.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think we'll be seeing a lot more of those flaws very soon. Already there are some experiencing issues with the GT500. We'll see how the C8s hold up. When I get mine I'll post updates on any issues that might pop up.

Like this...

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out that the GT500 can go more than 180 if the limiter was off and it was kept stock.
Its 760hp we are talking about, it's not going to "stop" pulling at 180 just like any other 700+ hp car.
The 662hp 2014 GT500 did 197 or something like that if I remember correctly so why wouldn't 100 more HP do the same?

Agree on 180. Ford limited the GT500 for reasons which remain unknown to the general public. As far as the 100HP difference between Gen2 GT500 and the current version (especially CFTP) with more aero drag to overcome which will reduce top speed potential. Take for example ZL1 vs ZLE top speed. Same eng..etc with ~8MPH difference between them. For all we know current version may indeed surpass Gen2 GT500, but I can imagine it would be by much.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out that the GT500 can go more than 180 if the limiter was off and it was kept stock.
Its 760hp we are talking about, it's not going to "stop" pulling at 180 just like any other 700+ hp car.
The 662hp 2014 GT500 did 197 or something like that if I remember correctly so why wouldn't 100 more HP do the same?

It probably would do more than 180 that way but would it do that safely?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think we'll be seeing a lot more of those flaws very soon. Already there are some experiencing issues with the GT500. We'll see how the C8s hold up. When I get mine I'll post updates on any issues that might pop up.

One thing tho...Dodge with their HC engines set the redline at 5750 and the limiter at 6200. The RE was extended up to 6500. The ZL1 is limited to 6500 RPMs. So is it possible that at the RPM needed to make 760 HP on the GT500, the engine has problems pushing a car this heavy? Or perhaps the fueling can't keep up? Or maybe it isn't drawing in enough air? Or it could be the DCT or diff. Whatever the case, Ford was not exactly forthcoming.

For me the only issue would be assuming the rated input shaft speed would be the same as the output, as a DCT 7 speed is basically two 4-speeds glued together. Anyway I ran the numbers 9000 RPM output shaft speed comes to 207 MPH, the trans is rated near 650 ft lbs and a manual is stronger in general in the higher gears as the teeth to teeth ration is closer to 1:1.

https://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php
Anyway I use the above and used peak 7300 HP peak, as this is pulling an OD gear to get these max speeds of
51,79,112, 145, 186,234, so it would be in 5th gear at say 7000 RPM that it is limited to, that is a .86 ratio, 6th is a HUGE OD of .68 I used this to tell me the engine would be at 5800 RPM
looking at the dyno plots that would be about 650 HP, don't get me started on people that use SAE corrected dynos for FI HP charts.
https://www.motor1.com/news/390849/2...g-gt500-tuned/

So just maybe considering the huge jump in ratio from 5th to 6th and the drop of engine RPM to 5800 RPM, maybe for Ford said ,

The ZL1 auto 10 speed which has some nice spacing and just a guestimate (getting late) it would stay in the 5300 to 6600 RPM rage or about 35 HP drop during shifts.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/n4zgk2g/

Here is Hennesy and their unicorn std numbers, remember I'm just trying to get an idea of the curve. So the std are getting close to the engine net. That's what happens when you use unicorn HP to measure stuff.
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/23/...er-dyno-video/




Long story short it would appear that the GT500 on its 186 MPH shift would be down upto 100 HP from its peak, while a ZL1 auto would be down about 35 and it is all HP under the APPLIED curve that moves the car. Mustang gear ratios are actually similar to the M6 gear ratios. Just that GM's HP curve is much flatter. OHV baby. So the Mustang will have a hard time pulling the .68 OD gear on its 7 speed, it would still pull it of course but take way longer till it hit its drag limit of say 197, which is 6100 RPM, more than 1000 RPM off its HP peak as it reaches its drag limit, so yeah... it may take a while. Given that it starts at 760 HP.... which is a lot of HP.

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...rpm-calculator

data used 27.44 inch OD for the tire 3.73 FD, 3.14, 2.04, 1.43, 1.10,.86, .68 as the gear ratios. If somebody wants to provide me a good Ford produced engine HP I could actually integrate the HP over the applied curve or one of you guys with the fancy driving software.

Its getting late I may have messed up and used the 7300 HP peak as the RPM peak which I assume is 7500 so at rpm peak the speed in gear is: 52,80,115,191,241 so at 7500 rpm the shift to 5th gear would drop the engine to 5950 or dunno 90 HP below peak say 670... I could work out the Zl1 M6, the auto looks really good at holding the engine in its powerband. I have an SS m6 which is similar. Anyway here is the ZL1 speed in gear 6600 RPM
63,89,118,143,174,265. We can see that the 5th to 6th shift the ZL1 is going to really have issues. At 174 MPH in 6th the engine is turning 4350 RPM. Oh well my car almost never sees 100 MPH. I do want a Zl1 trans though it would help my zero to 60 time (no shift).

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And my tires arrived today!! 4 MuchoMacho tires for the Hellcat...lease end in 4 months. And I ordered 4 PS4S tires for the ZL1. Unfortunately only the rears arrived. There was an error with my order and the 2 fronts were not in stock. So they refunded my money and now I have to wait for it to clear so I can order 2 new ones. Hellcat going in tomorrow for the tire change and I'll wait for the two fronts to do the ZL1. Next will be the 2" LTs, Maggie 2650, and tune!!

I like the PS4S tires, was one of the first to order them. I've killed them and now I need set 5!! yes my 5th set of times in 19,000 miles. Probably 888R, still hopeless as it ain't ever going to hook. I don't "burn out" BTW, the tires are dying just doing "normal" in gear acceleration.. must be defective

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by minn19

Why no answer?

Looked like more of a comment than a legitimate question, that's why I asked for some clarification on what you meant.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The conclusion from the PP2 Lighting Lap article clears up how the 1LE compares to it.

Did the standard SS ever battle the PP1? I do know the SLE took on the PP1 and RP said it wasn't even close.

Originally Posted by LESS1

Agree on 180. Ford limited the GT500 for reasons which remain unknown to the general public. As far as the 100HP difference between Gen2 GT500 and the current version (especially CFTP) with more aero drag to overcome which will reduce top speed potential. Take for example ZL1 vs ZLE top speed. Same eng..etc with ~8MPH difference between them. For all we know current version may indeed surpass Gen2 GT500, but I can imagine it would be by much.

Also the weight difference between the two cars. The 13/14 GT500 did 192 MPH top speed or something like that. They never made it to 200. In fact I think they're the only ones who didn't make it to 200 MPH yet.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It probably would do more than 180 that way but would it do that safely?

Yea but how much more than 180 and can it do it and remain stable. Or without sending a rod thru the hood. LOL!! Eventually someone will remove the limiter and see for themselves. When they do I just hope they have a fire extinguisher readily available and medic personnel on standby.

Originally Posted by oldman

For me the only issue would be assuming the rated input shaft speed would be the same as the output, as a DCT 7 speed is basically two 4-speeds glued together. Anyway I ran the numbers 9000 RPM output shaft speed comes to 207 MPH, the trans is rated near 650 ft lbs and a manual is stronger in general in the higher gears as the teeth to teeth ration is closer to 1:1.

https://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php
Anyway I use the above and used peak 7300 HP peak, as this is pulling an OD gear to get these max speeds of
51,79,112, 145, 186,234, so it would be in 5th gear at say 7000 RPM that it is limited to, that is a .86 ratio, 6th is a HUGE OD of .68 I used this to tell me the engine would be at 5800 RPM
looking at the dyno plots that would be about 650 HP, don't get me started on people that use SAE corrected dynos for FI HP charts.
https://www.motor1.com/news/390849/2...g-gt500-tuned/

So just maybe considering the huge jump in ratio from 5th to 6th and the drop of engine RPM to 5800 RPM, maybe for Ford said ,

The ZL1 auto 10 speed which has some nice spacing and just a guestimate (getting late) it would stay in the 5300 to 6600 RPM rage or about 35 HP drop during shifts.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/n4zgk2g/

Here is Hennesy and their unicorn std numbers, remember I'm just trying to get an idea of the curve. So the std are getting close to the engine net. That's what happens when you use unicorn HP to measure stuff.
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/23/...er-dyno-video/




Long story short it would appear that the GT500 on its 186 MPH shift would be down upto 100 HP from its peak, while a ZL1 auto would be down about 35 and it is all HP under the APPLIED curve that moves the car. Mustang gear ratios are actually similar to the M6 gear ratios. Just that GM's HP curve is much flatter. OHV baby. So the Mustang will have a hard time pulling the .68 OD gear on its 7 speed, it would still pull it of course but take way longer till it hit its drag limit of say 197, which is 6100 RPM, more than 1000 RPM off its HP peak as it reaches its drag limit, so yeah... it may take a while. Given that it starts at 760 HP.... which is a lot of HP.

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...rpm-calculator

data used 27.44 inch OD for the tire 3.73 FD, 3.14, 2.04, 1.43, 1.10,.86, .68 as the gear ratios. If somebody wants to provide me a good Ford produced engine HP I could actually integrate the HP over the applied curve or one of you guys with the fancy driving software.

Its getting late I may have messed up and used the 7300 HP peak as the RPM peak which I assume is 7500 so at rpm peak the speed in gear is: 52,80,115,191,241 so at 7500 rpm the shift to 5th gear would drop the engine to 5950 or dunno 90 HP below peak say 670... I could work out the Zl1 M6, the auto looks really good at holding the engine in its powerband. I have an SS m6 which is similar. Anyway here is the ZL1 speed in gear 6600 RPM
63,89,118,143,174,265. We can see that the 5th to 6th shift the ZL1 is going to really have issues. At 174 MPH in 6th the engine is turning 4350 RPM. Oh well my car almost never sees 100 MPH. I do want a Zl1 trans though it would help my zero to 60 time (no shift).

Is there a Fisher-Price version of this? LOL!! I mean, wow oldman.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

I like the PS4S tires, was one of the first to order them. I've killed them and now I need set 5!! yes my 5th set of times in 19,000 miles. Probably 888R, still hopeless as it ain't ever going to hook. I don't "burn out" BTW, the tires are dying just doing "normal" in gear acceleration.. must be defective

I hear that these are good until only around 700+ RWHP at which point you'll have to upgrade. What are your thoughts? I'll be approaching those limits later this year and I want to know ahead of time what I'll need.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Looked like more of a comment than a legitimate question, that's why I asked for some clarification on what you meant.

And still no answer...........