FI and Oil Seals

Fraxum · 03-08-2018, 08:09 AM

I am on the fence about going FI or ZL1. Thinking at least at first of a low PSI centrifugal on my M6 SS.

I see several threads about blown seals. At what PSI is this a problem with the LT1 being revved to 6,500 often with the M6?

Also what should I do on my build to minimize or prevent a problem? Seals are a PIA.

KingLT1 · 03-08-2018, 08:16 AM

It should not be a problem long as you put a catch can on from the get go.

JFM-jr · 03-08-2018, 08:40 AM

Yes proper crankcase venting. Also in alot of these blown seal situations the people come to find out theres a deeper cause like piston failure. Theres a thread over on the Corvette forum about this. The 600 wheel mark seems to be the cutoff point for piston survival. The failures above the 600 mark are said to be non detonation related and more due to the tight ring gaps.

Joe's_cool_1le · 03-08-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

Yes proper crankcase venting. Also in alot of these blown seal situations the people come to find out theres a deeper cause like piston failure. Theres a thread over on the Corvette forum about this. The 600 wheel mark seems to be the cutoff point for piston survival. The failures above the 600 mark are said to be non detonation related and more due to the tight ring gaps.

What he said is what was my end result. Front seal, rear seal, then found 2 ringland failures. I was also just over the 600 mark and at the top of the RPM in a 4th during a long pull when she went.

steelheadrob · 03-08-2018, 11:48 AM

I will be installing a Whipple in the next couple weeks when it arrives. I am planning on installing a mighty mouse vented catch can at the same time to help minimize the risk of blowing a seal. Are there any guys that have had a blown seal while using a vented catch can?

JANNETTYRACING · 03-08-2018, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I am on the fence about going FI or ZL1. Thinking at least at first of a low PSI centrifugal on my M6 SS.

I see several threads about blown seals. At what PSI is this a problem with the LT1 being revved to 6,500 often with the M6?

Also what should I do on my build to minimize or prevent a problem? Seals are a PIA.

When we do FI on a Gen 6 we install an LS3 crank seal up front, Or a Metco Crank case breather.

GM changed the design for the Gen6 Likely to reduce drag, and it's very weak like tissue paper, Sneeze and it blows out.

Ted.

misterjaayy · 03-08-2018, 12:31 PM

Quick question. Does the ringland failure cause the crankcase to blow or does the blown crankcase cause the rings/pistons to fail?

JANNETTYRACING · 03-08-2018, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterjaayy

Quick question. Does the ringland failure cause the crankcase to blow or does the blown crankcase cause the rings/pistons to fail?

The slightest crank case pressure can blow the seals out even without any piston ring land failure.

To answer your question Yes Piston failure causes seals to blow and not the other way around.

Ted.

oneredry · 03-08-2018, 01:08 PM

kind of on the subject/off the subject. I am looking for a catch can that I do not have to really do anything or think on how the routing of the hoses goes. That said, I did come from Mishimoto prior to boosted. is there anyone, anyone out there that has instructions that can accommodate to an already boosted motor?
- Maggie has you adjust the dirty side where the valley below the intake is prior to installation. due to the new routing. I'm confused as to what goes where. If someone sells this or can tell me the easiest most reliable way I'd buy from you TODAY!

brettman · 03-08-2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredry

kind of on the subject/off the subject. I am looking for a catch can that I do not have to really do anything or think on how the routing of the hoses goes. That said, I did come from Mishimoto prior to boosted. is there anyone, anyone out there that has instructions that can accommodate to an already boosted motor?
- Maggie has you adjust the dirty side where the valley below the intake is prior to installation. due to the new routing. I'm confused as to what goes where. If someone sells this or can tell me the easiest most reliable way I'd buy from you TODAY!

Here is the complete thread if you didn't see it
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...degree+fitting

SSDanny · 03-08-2018, 05:28 PM

So if going FI, and only planning on staying around the 600whp figures, the best way to prevent engine failure would be a catch can and new pistons/rings? As well as fuel mods for SS models? Anything else I'm missing?

KingLT1 · 03-08-2018, 05:41 PM

No you don't need piston rings at that power...most of the failures are guys running over 600whp on the stock fuel system and start going lean on long pulls. Yes the ring gaps are tight on LT1's and some are tighter then others...kind of like women.

keep it around 580whp with a catch can/breather setup(mighty mouse) and you should be fine with nothing else.

Brianw36 · 03-08-2018, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

When we do FI on a Gen 6 we install an LS3 crank seal up front, Or a Metco Crank case breather.

GM changed the design for the Gen6 Likely to reduce drag, and it's very weak like tissue paper, Sneeze and it blows out.

Ted.

What part number metco do you use?

JANNETTYRACING · 03-09-2018, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSDanny

So if going FI, and only planning on staying around the 600whp figures, the best way to prevent engine failure would be a catch can and new pistons/rings? As well as fuel mods for SS models? Anything else I'm missing?

With proper fuel supply and tuning the engine can live a long happy life at 600 RWHP.

The stock fuel system is capped out around 580 RWHP, those who push the limits of the fuel system are learning the hard way.

Ted.

03-08-2018, 08:09 AM	#1
Fraxum Drives: a M6 LT1 ordered From Becky!!! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 7,520	FI and Oil Seals I am on the fence about going FI or ZL1. Thinking at least at first of a low PSI centrifugal on my M6 SS. I see several threads about blown seals. At what PSI is this a problem with the LT1 being revved to 6,500 often with the M6? Also what should I do on my build to minimize or prevent a problem? Seals are a PIA. __________________ "Democracy Dies in Darkness" My LT1 Keeper ..... ..... My Car Blog CarPlayList, a free App to build USB and Android Music drives.

03-08-2018, 08:16 AM	#2
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,800	It should not be a problem long as you put a catch can on from the get go. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA Last edited by KingLT1; 03-08-2018 at 08:27 AM.

03-08-2018, 08:40 AM	#3
JFM-jr Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Suffolk Long Island Posts: 954	Yes proper crankcase venting. Also in alot of these blown seal situations the people come to find out theres a deeper cause like piston failure. Theres a thread over on the Corvette forum about this. The 600 wheel mark seems to be the cutoff point for piston survival. The failures above the 600 mark are said to be non detonation related and more due to the tight ring gaps. __________________ 2016 Hyper Blue 2SS A8,NPP,Moonroof Pray ported factory intake manifold Ported TB Rotofab ARH 1 7/8 longtubes hi flow cats AFM deleted E85 11.0@124.9 11.65@118.8 pump gas,stock tune/exhaust New combo: Pray Performance Heads/cam MSD intake manifold and Circle D 3C 554/491 on E85 all work & tuning done by Pray

03-08-2018, 01:08 PM	#9
oneredry HYPER SS Drives: 2016 Supercharged 2SS Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Troy OH Posts: 1,252	kind of on the subject/off the subject. I am looking for a catch can that I do not have to really do anything or think on how the routing of the hoses goes. That said, I did come from Mishimoto prior to boosted. is there anyone, anyone out there that has instructions that can accommodate to an already boosted motor? - Maggie has you adjust the dirty side where the valley below the intake is prior to installation. due to the new routing. I'm confused as to what goes where. If someone sells this or can tell me the easiest most reliable way I'd buy from you TODAY! __________________ Ordered: 1/15/2016 2000 status 02/01/16 3000 status 02/29/16 3400 status 03/07/16 TPW of 03/14/16 4200 status 03/17/16 in transit! Delivered 03/23/16 2SS Hyper Blue \| 6M \| NPP \| Mag ride \| ceramic white Int. \| Black out bow ties \| P3 Gauge\| Front splitter. \| 6 pot upgraded brembo brakes. \| Magnuson Supercharger/95MM pulley \| Rotofab Intake \| ZL1 side skirts \| HRE FF04 wheels - Michelin PSS4 \| ZL1 add ons rock guards and lift points. \| AWE touring - resinated catback with link pipes.

03-08-2018, 05:28 PM	#11
SSDanny Drives: 2017 Camaro SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: LA Posts: 447	So if going FI, and only planning on staying around the 600whp figures, the best way to prevent engine failure would be a catch can and new pistons/rings? As well as fuel mods for SS models? Anything else I'm missing? __________________ 2017 Camaro SS - Kooks Long Tube Headers 1-7/8th - EFI Flex Fuel Kit - Megan Racing Coilovers - FORGESTAR F14's 20x9.5 & 20x11

03-08-2018, 11:48 AM	#5
steelheadrob Tactical Garage Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Idaho Posts: 427	I will be installing a Whipple in the next couple weeks when it arrives. I am planning on installing a mighty mouse vented catch can at the same time to help minimize the risk of blowing a seal. Are there any guys that have had a blown seal while using a vented catch can?

03-08-2018, 12:31 PM	#7
misterjaayy Drives: 2019 CTS-V Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: San Diego Posts: 421	Quick question. Does the ringland failure cause the crankcase to blow or does the blown crankcase cause the rings/pistons to fail?

03-08-2018, 05:41 PM	#12
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,800	No you don't need piston rings at that power...most of the failures are guys running over 600whp on the stock fuel system and start going lean on long pulls. Yes the ring gaps are tight on LT1's and some are tighter then others...kind of like women. keep it around 580whp with a catch can/breather setup(mighty mouse) and you should be fine with nothing else. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

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