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Old 06-15-2018, 12:33 PM   #57
whiteboyblues2001

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
A McLaren V8 is 3.8L. V8 engines are likely to remain, just a lot smaller and spinning a lot faster. And a lot more expensive. The other alternative is that they are smaller, spinning a bit faster, and supplemented by electric motors and/or electric superchargers. Nothing beats the torque of a V8 EXCEPT the torque of an electric motor. Or two.



I still chuckle at how many people don’t get this. I think you (shaffe)might remember the thread at M6G where someone pointed out that Mustang only needs 5.0L to do what Camaro needs 6.2L to do. I pointed out that the displacement is the size of the holes, not the size of the metal, and that the 5.0 covers approximately the same physical footprint as the 6.2 and that the 6.2L might actually weigh less (4 cams vs 1, additional belts and pulleys). Their response was...the 5.0 weighs about 10 lbs less. Either way, so much for the size discussion.
Now that they upgraded the Coyote with dual injection, and some other changes, I'd bet it's probably a bit heavier now too...
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:38 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3 View Post
Or, in the case of the LT1 vs. Coyote, a DOHC engine with 80% of the OHV's displacement. Basically the same fuel economy/emissions, too.

Comparing apples to apples (torque-y naturally-aspirated American V8s, not exotic European forced induction variants in cars 4x the price), to date there's been little difference to make one really better than the other. Historically there's not been enough of a difference to make it economical to ditch the 350+ cu in OHV V8 architecture for a low-300's cu in DOHC V8 when the competition's offering isn't producing a measurable benefit in any metric (their fanboys' chattering about "old technology" not being a real metric).
When I was in GM Powertrain Planning, I used to always be on the engineers about modernizing the V8 and getting away from the “old tech” pushrod engine and into smaller DOHCs. A V8 version of the then new 3.6L V6. The guy that was Small Block Chief Engineer at the time took me to the teardown room and gave me a real education on engine design. Reader’s Digest version.... the small block is a much more efficient package than the DOHC V6. We also discussed some of the technologies that were being developed for the Small Block and we discussed the concepts of downsized boosting, where companies were making small engines behave like big engines when they needed to (3.5 EcoBoost) compared to cylinder deactivation which made big engines act like small engines when all the power wasn’t needed. I got off my push for small DOHC V8s.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:46 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by fastball View Post
GM historically hasn't done DOHC V8s all that well. The Northstars seemed a bit sluggish compared to competitor DOHC V8s and not that reliable. Really the only DOHC V6 GM has ever really done well are the 3.6.

GM does OHV engines better than anyone.
When was the last time GM designed a DOHC V8?

They could make an eight cylinder version of the current 3.6, but it would be better if they just switched all the OHV V8 cars to a turbo V6.

Turbos have gotten sophisticated and when combined with VVT, they produce low emissions and low end torque that is unapproachable with naturally aspirated engines.

I have a Trax with a 1.3 liter turbo I4. The torque curve is so flat it feels like a little diesel.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:49 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Rock-It Man View Post
When was the last time GM designed a DOHC V8?

They could make an eight cylinder version of the current 3.6, but it would be better if they just switched all the OHV V8 cars to a turbo V6.

Turbos have gotten sophisticated and when combined with VVT, they produce low emissions and low end torque that is unapproachable with naturally aspirated engines.

I have a Trax with a 1.3 liter turbo I4. The torque curve is so flat it feels like a little diesel.

Until it is proven turbocharged vehicles are as reliable and the added complexity of forced induction is no cost to me to replace the components, I will always prefer a NA V8 over a FI V6 making the same power.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:44 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock-It Man View Post
When was the last time GM designed a DOHC V8?

They could make an eight cylinder version of the current 3.6, but it would be better if they just switched all the OHV V8 cars to a turbo V6.

Turbos have gotten sophisticated and when combined with VVT, they produce low emissions and low end torque that is unapproachable with naturally aspirated engines.

I have a Trax with a 1.3 liter turbo I4. The torque curve is so flat it feels like a little diesel.
Northstars. Cadillac motors from ‘93-‘04. DOHC 32v V8s. They seemed more sluggish than their roughly 300 hp ratings would suggest.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:05 PM   #62
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I’ll just throw in my perspective. I grew up with V8 muscle cars. My first one was a 2003 Mustang GT, then a 2006 GTO. Now I have a 2017 Camaro SS.

Each car I owned kept getting faster, better, and more fuel efficient. I remember back in 2003 talking about how the death of the muscle car was on the horizon, and here I am 15 years later with a car with almost twice the horsepower with 50% better fuel economy.

I recently got to drive a Tesla Model X P90D. I was blown away at how much faster it was than my SS. Of course the handling wasn’t better because it’s an SUV, but it was an eye-opening experience for me. The acceleration is instant and explosive. There’s no lag or anything. Granted it’s also much more expensive than my Camaro and much quieter...

Just with the pace technology has been making progress, I’m convinced EV cars may be cheaper and faster than ICE within the next 5 years. If Chevy releases an all-electric Camaro with SS performance for the same price, I’ll be getting one. I’m happy as long as I get a blistering-fast, beautiful Camaro that’ll throw you back in the seat when you step on the ‘gas’.
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