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Old 07-20-2018, 04:12 PM   #57
TRZ06

 
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Originally Posted by 1LE Red Dragon View Post
Or save some money and buy the BIG brother 1LE

https://youtu.be/CqoTN0nBcQo
My original plan was to get the ZL1 1LE, but since it would be my only car and a daily driver, I couldn't justify it. I even test drove one.

I would not want to put lesser tires on it (like the 4S), and the stock tires are not daily driver friendly (wear fast, take a long time to get heat into them, not good in rain) and while the Supercar 3's on the SS 1LE are not perfect for year round driving either, they get you closer and they grip pretty well even without heat in them.

I didn't mind the stiff ride, as my M3 with Ohlins were just as stiff and on some bumps even harsher, but then you factor in the other costs... increased fuel cost, increased insurance, replacing tires more often, and I just could not justify it for a daily driver that will MAYBE see 1 or 2 track days a year.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:16 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
My original plan was to get the ZL1 1LE, but since it would be my only car and a daily driver, I couldn't justify it. I even test drove one.

I would not want to put lesser tires on it (like the 4S), and the stock tires are not daily driver friendly (wear fast, take a long time to get heat into them, not good in rain) and while the Supercar 3's on the SS 1LE are not perfect for year round driving either, they get you closer and they grip pretty well even without heat in them.

I didn't mind the stiff ride, as my M3 with Ohlins were just as stiff and on some bumps even harsher, but then you factor in the other costs... increased fuel cost, increased insurance, replacing tires more often, and I just could not justify it for a daily driver that will MAYBE see 1 or 2 track days a year.
I understand. I just put the newly released Bridgestone S007A in stock size. It's an Extreme Summer tire. Much better all around tire. Didn't lose much I grip that you can tell on the streets. Feels the same, steering response is great. Supposed to be better dry grip than 4S but wet grip that won't kill you in a rain storm. I think it's a great compromise for the street.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:24 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by 1LE Red Dragon View Post
I understand. I just put the newly released Bridgestone S007A in stock size. It's an Extreme Summer tire. Much better all around tire. Didn't lose much I grip that you can tell on the streets. Feels the same, steering response is great. Supposed to be better dry grip than 4S but wet grip that won't kill you in a rain storm. I think it's a great compromise for the street.
Since I did a purchase on the SS 1LE and not a lease, I might think about some power adders in the future, but for now I am going to work on paint protection, cosmetic stuff, and exhaust.

Summit racing has a package for about 6K that gets you to about 500HP, so maybe I will look into that next year. I do not want to add so much power that it throws off the balance of the car, I just want a little more OOOMMPPHH
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:38 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
My original plan was to get the ZL1 1LE, but since it would be my only car and a daily driver, I couldn't justify it. I even test drove one.

I would not want to put lesser tires on it (like the 4S), and the stock tires are not daily driver friendly (wear fast, take a long time to get heat into them, not good in rain) and while the Supercar 3's on the SS 1LE are not perfect for year round driving either, they get you closer and they grip pretty well even without heat in them.

I didn't mind the stiff ride, as my M3 with Ohlins were just as stiff and on some bumps even harsher, but then you factor in the other costs... increased fuel cost, increased insurance, replacing tires more often, and I just could not justify it for a daily driver that will MAYBE see 1 or 2 track days a year.
Why didn't you just get a ZL1?
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #61
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Why didn't you just get a ZL1?
That's a fair question.

I really loved the look of the SS 1LE and while the Zl1 has the motor and I think some of the other goodies, I wanted the 1LE package.

Also, if I'm being honest, I really didn't think about it much. I probably should have. I was set on the top dog 1LE package for both trim packages and my mind really didn't consider anything less.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:28 PM   #62
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Congrats on the new car. I too came from an F80 M3 (2017 ZCP). Mine was a manual though and the two cars felt pretty close to me. I drove the DCT version of several M cars at the M Perfomance Driving School and I think the DCT transmission makes a big difference. They really did a good job with that engine/transmission combo on the M3/M4.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:19 AM   #63
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Congrats on the new car. I too came from an F80 M3 (2017 ZCP). Mine was a manual though and the two cars felt pretty close to me. I drove the DCT version of several M cars at the M Perfomance Driving School and I think the DCT transmission makes a big difference. They really did a good job with that engine/transmission combo on the M3/M4.
Yeah, they did. It's too bad that was the only great thing about the M3.

I was disappointed in the handling, stability control system, top heavy feel, and the way they under tired it. The chassis was a mess, but DAMN, that motor, DCT, and drivetrain was the bomb.
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:53 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
That's a fair question.

I really loved the look of the SS 1LE and while the Zl1 has the motor and I think some of the other goodies, I wanted the 1LE package.

Also, if I'm being honest, I really didn't think about it much. I probably should have. I was set on the top dog 1LE package for both trim packages and my mind really didn't consider anything less.
Not saying anything negative about the SS 1LE (probably the best performance bargain in the world right now). But you do know that the ZL1 has all the performance bits of the SS 1LE plus a few suspension parts that are on the the ZL1 1LE and additional cooling components that aren't in the the SS 1LE. Not to mention the availability of the A10 tranny if you want to go that route, then there is the motor...... Essentially the SS 1LE is the bargain version of the ZL1, with the big give up a couple hundred HP and tq.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:31 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Badgerbimmer View Post
Not saying anything negative about the SS 1LE (probably the best performance bargain in the world right now). But you do know that the ZL1 has all the performance bits of the SS 1LE plus a few suspension parts that are on the the ZL1 1LE and additional cooling components that aren't in the the SS 1LE. Not to mention the availability of the A10 tranny if you want to go that route, then there is the motor...... Essentially the SS 1LE is the bargain version of the ZL1, with the big give up a couple hundred HP and tq.
That may all be true, but it doesn't matter now, I have already purchased the 1LE, so I am in it for quite some time now.

I am not unhappy, and maybe in a year or two I'll add some bolt on stuff.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:15 PM   #66
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Nice write up and good info. My Old C5Z was also one of my favorite cars. I will get another one some day.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Yeah, they did. It's too bad that was the only great thing about the M3.

I was disappointed in the handling, stability control system, top heavy feel, and the way they under tired it. The chassis was a mess, but DAMN, that motor, DCT, and drivetrain was the bomb.
I really appreciate your review and it's relevance to me - same situation, I have a 2016 M3 ZCP with lease end coming up early next year. I haven't driven an SS 1LE or a ZL1 yet, but I did test drive a GT350 and other than the noise, I was very disappointed by the lack of any sense of speed I had while caning it, or comparatively how responsive/willing to rev and how torquey the S55 is in comparison. After the test drive I got back into my M3 and appreciated just how good the drivetrain is (DCT). Mine has stock ZCP suspension so I can't even imagine what having the Ohlins coilover setup you had was like, but I agree that at low speed and around-town driving, it's hard to beat. What draws me to an SS 1LE or ZL1 is that the substantial downside to the M3 is that it is so "surgical" and lacking in soul and character. Do you feel that having the V8 outweighs the issues you mentioned (lazy responsiveness, slightly less sporty at lower speeds)?
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:44 PM   #68
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I really appreciate your review and it's relevance to me - same situation, I have a 2016 M3 ZCP with lease end coming up early next year. I haven't driven an SS 1LE or a ZL1 yet, but I did test drive a GT350 and other than the noise, I was very disappointed by the lack of any sense of speed I had while caning it, or comparatively how responsive/willing to rev and how torquey the S55 is in comparison. After the test drive I got back into my M3 and appreciated just how good the drivetrain is (DCT). Mine has stock ZCP suspension so I can't even imagine what having the Ohlins coilover setup you had was like, but I agree that at low speed and around-town driving, it's hard to beat. What draws me to an SS 1LE or ZL1 is that the substantial downside to the M3 is that it is so "surgical" and lacking in soul and character. Do you feel that having the V8 outweighs the issues you mentioned (lazy responsiveness, slightly less sporty at lower speeds)?
Regarding the Ohlins... They make amazing dampers and they are very quick reacting, the issue with them (at least on this car and on this chassis) is that there were great on some bumps and dips and in general felt better the faster you went, but there were certain bumps and dips that were very harsh and would actually lift you out of your seat and cause the traction control to activate. This chassis just never felt good or very confidence inspiring, it was always fighting against itself. It had great understeer/oversteer balance, but that was it.

I will be honest as I still have the M3 for another month or so, I'm just not really driving it, but when I do, I instantly miss that kick you in the seat acceleration. Having said that, if you take every as a whole, the SS 1LE is SOOOOO much better of a car. From the chassis feel, to the brakes, to the quality of no rattles or noises, to the very smooth yet composed damping of the magnetic shocks, to the amazing aggressive looks.

This may be a lie , but I had it to 130 on the freeway in comfort mode when there was no traffic and it was smooth as glass, yet still very composed. In the M3 with the Ohlins, you better not have any internal organ issues and if you don't you would soon very well might. Yes in some instances the Ohlins react quicker, but as a whole some bumps that you feel with the Ohlins, were non-exsistant with the mag. ride.

Is the 1LE perfect, no...

Since the M3's rear-end is hard mounted to the subframe and the 1LE is not and has bushings, you can feel the difference and the movement in the rear that the M3 lacks, however, I just ordered the ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings and will have them installed in a few weeks to remedy that.

I am also used to high spring rates in the M3 and in comparison there is more "give" and a lazy feel at very low speeds in the 1LE because of this, but I am talking about driveways, speed bumps, etc. kind of speed. If also drinks gas faster if you really lay into it, you are dealing with 8 cylinders all the time, as where in the M, you are on 6 and not always on boost.

I am really nit picking here though, as both a daily driver and a track car the 1LE does it all and truly has a Dr. Jekyl Mr. Hyde personality.

To me the M3 and the Camaro have switched roles. The M3 is the untamed muscle car that has more power than its chassis can handle and the 1LE is a handling rock star with very high limits and the power and chassis match very well together.

I am probably rambling now, but after about 3 to 4 days of not being in the M3 and just getting used to the 1LE, you get used to the change in throttle application and it starts to feel faster as you adjust how the power delivery comes in.

I have only driven a GT350 once and it was like a year ago, so I don't remember how it felt and I didn't really get too deep in the throttle, but I would imagine it probably feels similar to the 1LE in power delivery, its 0-60 times are pretty close to the 1LE, it might feel a little faster as you get to rev. it to 8500, but I would not trade it for the 1LE.

Camaro has better interior , nicer looking instrument panel (if you care about that, I do) and you sit lower like in a true sports car. As far as visibility , use your mirrors correctly and get a 2SS so you get blind spot monitoring and there is no issue.

Back to the M3 vs 1LE, I would choose the 1LE in a heartbeat. I over paid for the M3 for what I got and the issues it had, and so far I feel I under paid for what I got in the 1LE.

Any other questions, feel free to ask. Buying a car is a big decision and for me it is a very personal and emotional decision and one you have to live with for quite some time unless you have an unlimited checkbook. Any help I can be, just let me know.

Cheers
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:18 PM   #69
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Dont worry, the rattles will come... lol I have just under 2000 miles and have a couple rattles including a very annoying door panel rattle from the speaker bass. Sounds like a blown speaker but it's the door panel. Super annoying. Now I just leave the tunes off and listen to the V8 symphony. Hey, it's a Chevy, they rattle. :-/

Seriously though, good write up.
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:26 AM   #70
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Dont worry, the rattles will come... lol I have just under 2000 miles and have a couple rattles including a very annoying door panel rattle from the speaker bass. Sounds like a blown speaker but it's the door panel. Super annoying. Now I just leave the tunes off and listen to the V8 symphony. Hey, it's a Chevy, they rattle. :-/

Seriously though, good write up.
I am now at 900 miles and so far, not a peep anywhere. Super solid thus far.
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