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Old 01-01-2019, 08:08 PM   #1
Prochargedgen6
 
Drives: 2017 procharged camaro 2ss
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Procharger and meth?

I want to know more about meth, after running what kind of power gains with a procharger? What are the pros and cons? How long does the meth last, I know it depends on what size nozzle, but I'm just looking for some ball park info, and other than windshield washer fluid where do you get the good stuff at? What happens if you run out? Thanks in advance for so the help, meth is something I've never done
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:07 AM   #2
DorkMissile
 
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Lots of loaded questions in your post

There are a lot of variables to consider before giving any kind of specification when implementing meth injection. The first to consider is are you using the meth in order to take advantage of the temperature control of the combustion process (lower IAT temps drastically, reducing the opportunity for pre-detination which allows the opportunity for more timing and more boost), OR are you using it as an additional fuel source to supplement the stock fuel system?

If using it for what it is intended (the first scenario), you are talking about a pretty safe and predictable scenario which can give you the opportunity to run 4-5 more PSI from the head unit (given you have the ability to flow the extra CFM & have the extra fuel supply) and can net another 50-60ft lbs from the boost and timing on a stock SBE and starting at 7-8lbs of boost. Given the type of system you run (I am just getting started on installing a Alky Contol system on my car), if it is a progressive based system that monitors the MAF and only turns on the pump for the meth at elevated boost levels, the volume of meth required is pretty low and reliability is pretty stable. If the pump fails or you run out, keep it out of boost until you can get everything suited out.

In the later scenario, since you are pretty much in a "need the meth all the time" mode, your consumption will be way up and if you loose a pump you are dead in the water (given you didn't hurt the engine).

On the DI engines there is a scenario that is kind of between the two above scenarios. Depending on which in-tank pump your car came with (the standard SS pump or the 1LE/ZL1 tank pump), you are pretty much limited to around 550-570hp & 8lbs on a stock fuel system (1LE tank pump). Meth is a good solution to punch it over the 600hp mark and still be pretty safe. You can go up to 10-11lbs and really only need the meth to sustain fuel supply when you are above the 7-8lb mark. This is pretty much what I am doing with my car, and as my tuner described it "you can run E85 OR a supercharger on the stock HPFP, the meth injection will get you to both under higher boost levels, you are just making E85 in the intake"

As far as availability of meth - its easier than you think. Find your local VP fuels or Sunoco race fuel dealer and you can buy strait methanol for about $45 for 5 gallons. Dilute to 50/50 meth / water (By WEIGHT, not volume) and you have 9-10 gallons of mix for about $50. You need to determine if you want to run mixed (and at what ratio) or strait meth. There are advantages to both, and those decisions will determine the power gained / volume used / reliability.

Another thing to consider is the type of system out there. There are several manufacturers that have different concepts & / or "levels" of systems that will impact the results. Some systems are as simple as a TPS switch that turns on a pump that squirts right into the intake. Lowest cost and lowest control / reliability. From there you can get the systems that montitor the MAF or MAP sensor that will give the Meth controller the ability to trigger on and off at different pressures. And lastly (and the reason I liked the Alky kit), is a controller that progressively ramps from one boost point. This is pretty much the most control / safest setup but it is the type that is most reliable.

Now that you are more confused lol
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:08 AM   #3
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I use the Alky Controls system on my Procharger setup running 10.5lbs of boost and putting down 650rwhp, I run straight meth that I get from the local VP place. In the summer I go thru about a 1/2 gallon every 10 days or so depending on how much I drive the car.

I also run a couple of gallons of E85 still up to E20.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:52 AM   #4
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I also run the Alky Control meth system. 100% methanol. It only kicks in while in boost. The kit comes with indicator lights to let you know when you're low and when it's spraying.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:17 AM   #5
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answering a lot of questions i have as well, but one question since you all come with experience, if you all had to do it over again which procharger would you all recommend? i keep bouncing off on getting the F1A, i really want to be closer to that 800-1000hp range. i'm full bolt ons heads/cam right now, i should be in the 500 range, i plan on going with the alky system and low side unit and what not as well. but i'm more concerned on the head unit as i wouldn't know which would be best, also a huge price difference when it comes to the F1A, money isn't a whole concern but at the same time if the P-1X or what not can bring me to that power level then why not save some money
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3BOOSTED View Post
answering a lot of questions i have as well, but one question since you all come with experience, if you all had to do it over again which procharger would you all recommend? i keep bouncing off on getting the F1A, i really want to be closer to that 800-1000hp range. i'm full bolt ons heads/cam right now, i should be in the 500 range, i plan on going with the alky system and low side unit and what not as well. but i'm more concerned on the head unit as i wouldn't know which would be best, also a huge price difference when it comes to the F1A, money isn't a whole concern but at the same time if the P-1X or what not can bring me to that power level then why not save some money
D1x will support over 900whp. Look up Detoxx on youtube. SBE LS3 C6 with a D1x making almost 1k whp. That is what I would of went with had I gone the PC route.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:11 PM   #7
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Take a look at the Novi 2200
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
D1x will support over 900whp. Look up Detoxx on youtube. SBE LS3 C6 with a D1x making almost 1k whp. That is what I would of went with had I gone the PC route.
Thank you, i've heard the stock crank on our SS can support just over 1000whp, would your recommendation be to keep the stock crank or go to someone else or maybe do a 416? Just trying to find the best route to make good power and to do it safely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkMissile View Post
Take a look at the Novi 2200
I don't think i've seen many sites out there offering a novi kit, who did you go through? i see you have a novi kit as well, any regrets? complaints?
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:29 PM   #9
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The ECS kit uses a novi 1500 blower with options to go to a bigger head unit as well.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3BOOSTED View Post
Thank you, i've heard the stock crank on our SS can support just over 1000whp, would your recommendation be to keep the stock crank or go to someone else or maybe do a 416? Just trying to find the best route to make good power and to do it safely.




I don't think i've seen many sites out there offering a novi kit, who did you go through? i see you have a novi kit as well, any regrets? complaints?
Stock crank will take you well past your goals. A good 416ci crank is 2 grand.
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3BOOSTED View Post
answering a lot of questions i have as well, but one question since you all come with experience, if you all had to do it over again which procharger would you all recommend? i keep bouncing off on getting the F1A, i really want to be closer to that 800-1000hp range. i'm full bolt ons heads/cam right now, i should be in the 500 range, i plan on going with the alky system and low side unit and what not as well. but i'm more concerned on the head unit as i wouldn't know which would be best, also a huge price difference when it comes to the F1A, money isn't a whole concern but at the same time if the P-1X or what not can bring me to that power level then why not save some money
Being a full bolt on car you will have to do the full LT-4 fuel system at minimum along with a JMS fuel pump voltage booster this will support and easily make 750 RWHP and you can run up to E-50.

The stock bottom end should be upgraded above this level and it will take an F1A94 to get to your goal.

let me know If I can be of assistance on your build.

Ted.
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkMissile View Post
Take a look at the Novi 2200
Novi kit a good setup too. There are things about it that I like better then the PC kit.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3BOOSTED View Post
I don't think i've seen many sites out there offering a novi kit, who did you go through? i see you have a novi kit as well, any regrets? complaints?
I went thru East Coast Supercharging. It is basically the Vortech kit with the Paxton (now owned by Vortech) Novi 1500 head unit. And a ECS specific air filter.

The standard Vortech system uses their Si head unit, which their smaller street head unit. Now Vortech can do a kit with the Ti head unit, but given the direction of rotation of this kit is reverse from normal, they only have it the Ti available in a oil fed configuration (drilling and tapping the oil pan, plumbing a oil feed line). Vortech doesn't have it on their website, but with enough googling you can find instructions for a HD kit from Vortech that uses the Yi which is their largest "street" type unit.

The Novi 1500 is basically the Vortech Ti but with a billet gear case instead of cast. The Novi 2200 is basically the Yi with a billet vs cast case.

I have everything installed, but am a few weeks out from tuning (its very winter here in Minnesota right now), but am in the midst of putting an Alky kit on it.

As far as the install goes - the kit is put together very well, not very many gaps or things left out in the instructions and pictures. Every component seems to be top notch. The worst part of the whole job was changing the plugs.

The design uses a jackshaft vs trying to drive the HU off of the crank pull / pull adapter. You get a longer belt to replace the stock one, and their bracket has a jackshaft that had a 6 rib pulley on one side and a cogged pulley on the other side. You have two belts, but very easy pulley swaps.

I looked long and hard at ProCharger, but I just didn't like their adapter that goes on the crank. I know people have luck with it, but I went as far as to quote out a D1, Stg 2 intercooler, Pro BOV and a upgraded balancer, but in the end it was a lot more work and a lot more money.

Goal is 600ft lbs on pump gas (MN premium is 91 octane with 10% ethanol) and meth. The math puts the head unit at 46K rpm (max is 52k) at 6000rpm, should be 10-11lbs of boost.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:44 PM   #14
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Not to high Jack but where are you all mounting the Alky pump and tank? I would like to mount in the trunk.
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