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Old 01-08-2021, 09:59 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
Those of us that own these cars are clearly "ok" with what GM did or we wouldn't be owners. The Camaro's current design does not include what it always did - GM changed the formula. While it still works for me, I will not defend their decisions that made this a less viable vehicle for their original market segment. And I agree that the sales numbers show that GM made mistakes with this car. The common gripe is that there's no marketing behind it, but I say it's simply because their target audience simply isn't big enough.

What was GM's intention with the design of the Gen5 and Gen6 cars? Was it to bring the performance segment down in price to attract more than just the Corvette buyer? It seems that way to me... But, it didn't pan out. Hence, V8's are not a majority of sales, they had to introduce the LT1 trim to put more V8 cars on the streets (percentage-wise), sales numbers are poor overall, Z/28 trim didn't return for Gen6 (almost certainly because of low volumes, related to high cost), etc. Hell, they aren't making any effort to address an issue with BRAKE PADS so they can sell the V8 cars in CA and WA!

The "mid-size pickup" segment was largely created as a way to get around CAFE standards. The smaller trucks got better overall MPG than the larger ones and helped to increase the overall average of the "trucks" that were produced to satisfy requirements. Does the Camaro somehow help GM in some other area that we aren't even thinking about in a similar fashion?

I love my car and am happy with my choice. But I'm also able to understand why it has very little appeal in the overall market.



That was my point, I'm satisfied otherwise I wouldn't have plunked down a good portion of a house on the car. GM narrowed the segment way down when they produced the Camaro. The complaints from the 5th Gen - usability, visibility especially got worse. performance increased.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:00 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by GearheadSS View Post
-LT2 as the base V8.

-Usable back seat and trunk space without compromising front seat room. Personally, I think the car is too small now. I know it will get heavier but the car is too small for a lot of people, especially those that are tall and have kids.

-More exterior/interior color choices.

-Keep offering a manual transmission.

-Get away from the current styling and introduce something to get people excited about the car again. Even though I love it, it's time to get away from the 1st gen styling cues.

-Rebrand the naming of the packages
4cyl(V6 is probably dead):
--LT-get rid of 1LT,2LT and 3LT. Just make it LT and have option packages available for order instead of forcing everything on each model.
V8:
--Z/28-base V8 Camaro. Similar to current LT1 but lose the 245 tires as those are ridiculous on a V8 car. Also make heavy duty cooling package and 1LE an option on this model.
--SS-mid level V8 trim available in current 2SS trim only. Give it a hp boost over Z/28. Lose the 1SS trim level. This is the high end non supercharged Camaro. If people want a lower option Camaro, they can get a Z/28. It's time for the SS name to be a little more special. It has been watered down for far too long.
--ZL1-make this available with a wider variety of options. Different interior color choices. Offer Recaros in something other than black. Offer optional wheels on ZL1 as well.
The only thing in this list that is not feasible is getting away from the xLT trim names. GM never should have introduced the LT1 trim name in the first place. GM has commonly put the trim level NUMBER in front of the NAME (1LT, 2LT, 3LT, 1LS, 1SS, etc.) as it breaks with their existing convention. It should have either been something entirely different, they should have changed the SS trims to include a 3SS (today's 2SS), or they should have introduced it as something like a 2LT w/ SS package or something.

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Originally Posted by zaimer View Post
The Corvette and the Camaro should not be competitor (aka cross-shopped); I would think that the intentions wouldn't have been to attract the Corvette buyers. Stealing your customers from another segment (that is also yours) is not gaining anything. You want/need entirely new buyers from the market.

The question that should be asked, at least before when the pricing was more similar (the Corvette C8 is way out of the Camaro ballpark now). With all of the impartialities/complaints of the Camaro that are listed - look at the Corvette that really offered no solution. Why do people buy the Corvette?
No, they shouldn't be. But, with the drop in starting price for the C8, they now are.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:03 AM   #157
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I'm good with that except using the Z/28 as the base V8. That should be reserved for a more road course focused version or not at all, IMHO.
I get it but the Z/28 has been a non road course car for far longer than it was available with that use in mind. In all honesty, the Z/28 as a road course focused package isn't needed when you have a 1LE package available on different trims.

Enthusiasts recognize Z/28 as what it was intended for when it was introduced in 1967 but the general public just knows the nameplate and that it's a performance Camaro. That's why Z/28 as the entry level V8 would make much more sense for GM from a name recognition and advertising standpoint. Simplifying the naming of the cars needs to happen if the Camaro continues on. It's way too confusing for the general public right now.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:10 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by GearheadSS View Post
I get it but the Z/28 has been a non road course car for far longer than it was available with that use in mind. In all honesty, the Z/28 as a road course focused package isn't needed when you have a 1LE package available on different trims.

Enthusiasts recognize Z/28 as what it was intended for when it was introduced in 1967 but the general public just knows the nameplate and that it's a performance Camaro. That's why Z/28 as the entry level V8 would make much more sense for GM from a name recognition and advertising standpoint. Simplifying the naming of the cars needs to happen if the Camaro continues on. It's way too confusing for the general public right now.
I do think there is a difference between Z/28 and Z28.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:12 AM   #159
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1. All electric version under $50000.
2. Better paint (no orange peel) and more colors.
3. Better designed dash with more storage, infotainment screen that doesn't look like it was a stuck on as an after thought. Magnetic phone mount. More customizable gauge cluster and lighting.

4. Bigger sun roof.
5. More backseat room or backseat deleted.
6. Better designed front and rear ends.
7. More of a modern design over retro design.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:23 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post
I do think there is a difference between Z/28 and Z28.
there's not , there's really not. the 1970 droppd the slash and it was a s better car, and there was no one in 1982 that thought 'oh this doesn't handle as well as a 69' did' . Third gen suspensions were as soft as a baseball bat against the spine
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:32 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post
I do think there is a difference between Z/28 and Z28.

There's not. No one at GM said "We shouldn't use the slash because it's not a road course car.". Come on.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:34 AM   #162
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How about IROC or a Berlinetta!
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:07 AM   #163
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How about IROC or a Berlinetta!
But, yes yes to the Berlinetta.
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:43 AM   #164
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Here's what I'd like in a 7th gen

- Better trunk opening. Doesn't need to be a full hatch but make the opening itself bigger and more useful. The car has the trunk space you just can't get to it.

- All-season performance tire option for all SS trims, in SS sizes (like the base C8)

- 1LE should be Z28. Just a name change but I think it would help with name recognition. Z28 is a strong brand name and is not doing Camaro any favors right now.

- 360 Surround view cameras optional

- BSM and rear cross traffic alert at least optional on all trim levels

- LT2 with a manual optional

- Easier stealth mode operation

- Do away with the double hump instrument cluster cover.

- Improve interior storage space. Make a functional and convenient place for wireless phone charging.

- Less weight would be great but not if adds a lot of cost
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:45 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearheadSS View Post
I get it but the Z/28 has been a non road course car for far longer than it was available with that use in mind. In all honesty, the Z/28 as a road course focused package isn't needed when you have a 1LE package available on different trims.
Neither the Z/28 nor the Z28 was ever a base model. They always had a bigger helping of road course competence than the base or, say, Berlinetta trims. It would be wrong to demote Z and 28 (with or without the slash). Doing so wouldn't mean anything to the people who may have heard of the nameplate but don't know or care about the history, and it would dilute the meaning of the nameplate for those who do.


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Old 01-08-2021, 12:50 PM   #166
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A V8, rear wheel drive, a manual option, at least 500 hp, higher quality interior, bigger trunk opening, better sound system, better sheet metal fitment.
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:59 PM   #167
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This thread would be better info, if people would post what more specifically they'd want in a next gen Camaro (dump the T4 & 3.6 for a maxed-cube 4.3 block base engine). And not what they think works in the market, or what they think GM wants to offer.
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:48 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Petrol Head View Post
They had exactly what you want. The SS sedan. 5th Gen Camaro SS chassis under a 4 door sedan with a large trunk. Available with a 6 speed stick too!
I know, guy on my softball team has one. Absolutely loves it. Didn't need a car when they were for sale new and used ones pricing is way higher than I would want to spend on a used car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
I agree that there is and needs to be a "line" as described. However... The manufacturer should not be the one that gets to move that line. The Camaro was always capable of carrying passengers in the back seat. That quality has been changed by GM and SOME buyers accepted it and bought the car anyway. But, they've also lost customers because they changed a fundamental aspect of the car.

I don't want a family car that's sporty - I had that with my TL. And, while I personally do not need a sports/muscle car that can be used as a family car, I can see where providing usable rear seats (like always) opens the market up for GM and increases sales. The Camaro is not the Corvette and doesn't have the same market. But, the way that it's designed, it also no longer has its original market.
This ^ Not saying make it a family hauler, just make it as accessible as Mustang is.

Camaro is not the corvette. Camaro is not just a sports car. 60-70% of the volume is from the non performance oriented trims. If people want the camaro to stick around it has to have a broader appeal than just the track rats

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearheadSS View Post
There's not. No one at GM said "We shouldn't use the slash because it's not a road course car.". Come on.
Thank god I am not the only one who feels that way lol
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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