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Old 01-05-2021, 11:03 AM   #7435
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
CT5-V Blackwing has an LT4.
Ah, ok. missed that. I guess its a different v-8 than the Blackwing v-8???? not sure on that what's what...just saw the last paragraph...thanks...

"since launching the more modest CT4-V and CT5-V Cadillac has been promising beefier performance variants. If the spec sheets of the Blackwing cars are any indication, it appears the V-Series badge will once again mean serious performance. Although we’re still scratching our heads a bit when it comes to the Blackwing name given the fact neither Blackwing car will actually be powered by Cadillac’s Blackwing V-8. Then again, it wouldn’t be GM if it made total sense."

Dang, these car names still drive me nuts...lol...
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:23 AM   #7436
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Ah, ok. missed that. I guess its a different v-8 than the Blackwing v-8???? not sure on that what's what...just saw the last paragraph...thanks...

"since launching the more modest CT4-V and CT5-V Cadillac has been promising beefier performance variants. If the spec sheets of the Blackwing cars are any indication, it appears the V-Series badge will once again mean serious performance. Although weíre still scratching our heads a bit when it comes to the Blackwing name given the fact neither Blackwing car will actually be powered by Cadillacís Blackwing V-8. Then again, it wouldnít be GM if it made total sense."

Dang, these car names still drive me nuts...lol...
They called the car Blackwing even though it doesn't have a Blackwing V8. It's Cadillac in a nutshell.
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Old 01-05-2021, 01:26 PM   #7437
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https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/01...d-in-the-wild/


Corvette E-Ray powertrain mule.
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Old 01-05-2021, 01:33 PM   #7438
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Thanks Martin,

At least to me that's the only logical explanation. The whole segment is shrinking, but Camaro is hit the worst but it offers the best performance in the class, best handling in the class, and the performance to dollar ratio is insane yet its the worst selling vehicle in it's class for the majority of it's life and now has been hit the hardest since the segment is shrinking. The only things the other two do better is they are better at being cars. Even if it's only marginally better that can make a difference. Especially to someone who is making a decision based on a 15-20 minute test drive.
I believe the Camaro is best at the segment's mission as a performance focused vehicle. I think the segment makes a poor daily driver regardless of your choice here. However, the segment does make a sexy one if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. I guess on the Camaro though, the buying public as a whole clearly agrees with you and exactly why i'm saying the autopsy will be important for the EV rebirth. We're going to end up with something completely different if we get a Camaro at all.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:25 PM   #7439
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I believe the Camaro is best at the segment's mission as a performance focused vehicle. I think the segment makes a poor daily driver regardless of your choice here. However, the segment does make a sexy one if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. I guess on the Camaro though, the buying public as a whole clearly agrees with you and exactly why i'm saying the autopsy will be important for the EV rebirth. We're going to end up with something completely different if we get a Camaro at all.
I don't notice any more weekday driven new Challengers or Mustangs than 6th gens. The previous Mustang, yeah. 5th gen baited the segment to become personal trophies, not sustainable. Ford's just been better at convincing gullible youth the new Mustang is a better performance bang for buck. I had hoped for a ATS coupe sized 6th gen, not necessarily faster, because a better daily is compact, and there's no fun compacts out there, for me.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:52 PM   #7440
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Just to add fuel to this fire...


Corvette outsold Camaro in Q4 2020.
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Old 01-05-2021, 03:55 PM   #7441
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https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...nn-sources-say


Pay walled article, but evidently GM will be building Honda EVs at Ramos Arizpe and Spring Hill Assembly.
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:42 PM   #7442
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I don't notice any more weekday driven new Challengers or Mustangs than 6th gens. The previous Mustang, yeah. 5th gen baited the segment to become personal trophies, not sustainable. Ford's just been better at convincing gullible youth the new Mustang is a better performance bang for buck. I had hoped for a ATS coupe sized 6th gen, not necessarily faster, because a better daily is compact, and there's no fun compacts out there, for me.
I pass a Challenger every quarter mile. Wish I was joking. Sometimes Iíll be stopped at a light and thereíll be at least one Challenger in each direction. Maybe one day Iíll pull down some dashcam footage to prove my point. Now, keeping in mind that the car has looked pretty much the same since 2008, all model years are included in this.
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:44 PM   #7443
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https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...nn-sources-say


Pay walled article, but evidently GM will be building Honda EVs at Ramos Arizpe and Spring Hill Assembly.
I can confirm this. We are one of ANís sources on this. Speaking of AN, read the article on diesel sales and you might see someone you know quoted.
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Old 01-06-2021, 12:12 AM   #7444
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
I pass a Challenger every quarter mile. Wish I was joking. Sometimes Iíll be stopped at a light and thereíll be at least one Challenger in each direction. Maybe one day Iíll pull down some dashcam footage to prove my point. Now, keeping in mind that the car has looked pretty much the same since 2008, all model years are included in this.
I wish you were joking too. Past times I've driven into Michigan, it's always been cool basically seeing a parade of domestic makes. Even with the Challenger/post-Chrysler Co. weak credentials there.
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:21 AM   #7445
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Originally Posted by snizzle View Post
I believe the Camaro is best at the segment's mission as a performance focused vehicle. I think the segment makes a poor daily driver regardless of your choice here. However, the segment does make a sexy one if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. I guess on the Camaro though, the buying public as a whole clearly agrees with you and exactly why i'm saying the autopsy will be important for the EV rebirth. We're going to end up with something completely different if we get a Camaro at all.
Definitely. As a performance vehicle its cleary number 1 in the segment and I would have to even say it's a world class performance car in the right trim levels.

The problem is the majority of camaros sold don't fall into those categories so the only other explanation is the other two are better at being cars first. As painful as it is for enthusiasts to admit unless its a halo vehicle(Corvette) you need volume to justify it's existence. And as painful as it is for enthusiasts to admit, sometimes that means catering to the average person more than the enthusiast. I am fully confident GM could have still made the best performing car in the class and a better coupe at the same time.

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Just to add fuel to this fire...


Corvette outsold Camaro in Q4 2020.
ouch, that shouldn't happen
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:00 AM   #7446
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ouch, that shouldn't happen
Brand new ME Corvette design is the reason. Not unusual for a new Gen Corvette to outpace the Camaro, especially if you select a single Quarter of sales, and especially one of the lowest volume sports car sales quarters (Q4)
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:23 AM   #7447
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Brand new ME Corvette design is the reason. Not unusual for a new Gen Corvette to outpace the Camaro, especially if you select a single Quarter of sales, and especially one of the lowest volume sports car sales quarters (Q4)
Eh, sort of. Corvette is a low volume model though. It shouldn't outsell camaro in any quarter. Camaro only outsold Corvette by 8k units for the year. the last few years Camaro has outsold corvette for the year by at least 30K units.

Both makes had their best year of the last 10 years in 2014, Camaro outsold corvette by 52K cars.... Corvette should never outsell Camaro
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(

Last edited by shaffe; 01-06-2021 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:52 AM   #7448
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Eh, sort of. Corvette is a low volume model though. It shouldn't outsell camaro in any quarter. Camaro only outsold Corvette by 8k units for the year. the last few years Camaro has outsold corvette for the year by at least 30K units.

Both makes had their best year of the last 10 years in 2014, Camaro outsold corvette by 52K cars.... Corvette should never outsell Camaro
Disagree - Q4 is a slow sales quarter for sports cars. Add to that, the Camaro has nothing new model wise since 2018, with the only change a questionable face lift 2019-2020 and the addition of the A10 to the ZLE. Nothing new to entice buyers in the dead of winter.

On the other hand, the 2020 ME Corvette demand is through the roof, private resales consistently over MSRP, etc...it's not just a new gen of Corvette, it's an entirely new segment for Corvette/GM and it's proving to be very popular.
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