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Old 01-05-2021, 02:25 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by m3bs View Post
We put both cars on the scales while we were at the track. My ZLE was 3830 and the GT500 was about 4200. Both with just over half tank of fuel, no drivers.
Not a Carbon Fiber Track Pack?
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:29 PM   #58
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Car and Driver weighs each tested car w/ a full fuel tank, in order from lightest to heaviest:

ZLE M6: 3,842 lbs
ZLE A10: 3,886 lbs
ZL1 A10: 3,933 and 3,925 lbs (1st one was the test in 2017, the 2nd one was the lightning lap A10 ZL1)
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs
Base GT500: 4,171 lbs (another test by C&D had one that was a little lighter, but I couldn't find that data on the C&D website)
For grins: Challenger Hellcat Redeye A8: 4,529 lbs

My thoughts are the differences between the ZLE M6 and the base GT500 are massive: 329 lbs. However, the difference between an A10 ZL1 and a CFTP GT500 is not that big, about 130 lbs.

The weight of the GT500 is unfortunate, but all reviews have claimed it drives lighter than it is, for what that's worth, similar to how the ZL1 defies physics for a 3,900 lbs car.

Last thought: The Hellcat Redeye is a very heavy car and has the worst weight distribution (57/43 front/rear) of the three, which is why it can't get traction. It's heavy even compared to the heavy base GT500 (358 lbs lighter) and is a whopping 600 lbs heavier than an A10 ZL1.
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Old 01-05-2021, 06:44 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan View Post
What failures are they having? When I had my 2012 Mustang GT I didn't put a tune on it because people who were tuning, even using the ones you buy from American Muscle.com were having cylinder number 8 destructing. Why does Ford have all these engine and transmission issues. Mustangs also had a big issue with MT82.
LOL, I talk out of my rear sometimes.

But they have had issues, most notably with the YTers. For what it's worth, there's no telling if they are legit issues, or if the YTers sabotaged their own cars for likes and views, or what. But I personally would say it is probably a good idea to watch them and see what is happening with them. Because I know some disagree with me, but IMO, I think the GT500 was either a rush job by Ford or they had spent too much time/effort/money on rebuilding the GT and with the PP2 and all the warranty and recall issues with the GT350 or some combination of all that and they couldn't focus entirely on the GT500. They delayed it, then delayed it again, and then it got to the point that they just had to go ahead and push it out. Which is evident in the finish/quality issues with it.
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Old 01-05-2021, 06:48 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium View Post
Car and Driver weighs each tested car w/ a full fuel tank, in order from lightest to heaviest:

ZLE M6: 3,842 lbs
ZLE A10: 3,886 lbs
ZL1 A10: 3,933 and 3,925 lbs (1st one was the test in 2017, the 2nd one was the lightning lap A10 ZL1)
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs
Base GT500: 4,171 lbs (another test by C&D had one that was a little lighter, but I couldn't find that data on the C&D website)
For grins: Challenger Hellcat Redeye A8: 4,529 lbs

My thoughts are the differences between the ZLE M6 and the base GT500 are massive: 329 lbs. However, the difference between an A10 ZL1 and a CFTP GT500 is not that big, about 130 lbs.

The weight of the GT500 is unfortunate, but all reviews have claimed it drives lighter than it is, for what that's worth, similar to how the ZL1 defies physics for a 3,900 lbs car.

Last thought: The Hellcat Redeye is a very heavy car and has the worst weight distribution (57/43 front/rear) of the three, which is why it can't get traction. It's heavy even compared to the heavy base GT500 (358 lbs lighter) and is a whopping 600 lbs heavier than an A10 ZL1.
n the Redeye's defense, it is the least multi-faceted vehicle of the bunch and was built that way intentionally. I think FCA built it with an emphasis on comfort and straight line prowess over all else. I highly doubt FCA cared an ounce about cornering/handling. So I give them a pass in this regard. Plus once you start getting into highly modded cars, I don't think any other vehicle can bang heads with the Hellcat family from a price and durability standpoint.
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
n the Redeye's defense, it is the least multi-faceted vehicle of the bunch and was built that way intentionally. I think FCA built it with an emphasis on comfort and straight line prowess over all else. I highly doubt FCA cared an ounce about cornering/handling. So I give them a pass in this regard. Plus once you start getting into highly modded cars, I don't think any other vehicle can bang heads with the Hellcat family from a price and durability standpoint.
True, I agree with that, except I still think the Challenger is the worst in a straight line, too, because of the mass and the bad weight distribution, unless the conditions are perfectly ideal (prepped drag strip on hot sticky MTs). Even then, because it weighs nearly as much as my wife's Volvo XC90 AWD (3-rows at that), it's not that fast for the hp it has. I.e., the '21 Redeye Charger C&D recently tested: 4,654 lbs (as much weight as the AWD XC90), 797 hp, 0-60 in 3.5 sec., and 1/4 mile in 11.5 @ 126. That's only 1 mph better than the '17 ZL1 trapped by C&D with an additional 150 hp (give or take), and slower 0-60. Btw C&D has updated that ZL1's 0-60 and 1/4 mile to 3.3 and 11.4 (in lieu of 3.4 and 11.5) for the A10 it tested back in 2017 to make it in line with the "1-ft rollout" standard they use now, so they can make apples to apples comparisons to cars more recently tested.

Also, every review I've read by the magazines have talked about how uncomfortable the seats are. Blaq -- you own one -- is it true?
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:59 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium View Post
Car and Driver weighs each tested car w/ a full fuel tank, in order from lightest to heaviest:

ZLE M6: 3,842 lbs
ZLE A10: 3,886 lbs
ZL1 A10: 3,933 and 3,925 lbs (1st one was the test in 2017, the 2nd one was the lightning lap A10 ZL1)
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs
Base GT500: 4,171 lbs (another test by C&D had one that was a little lighter, but I couldn't find that data on the C&D website)
For grins: Challenger Hellcat Redeye A8: 4,529 lbs

My thoughts are the differences between the ZLE M6 and the base GT500 are massive: 329 lbs. However, the difference between an A10 ZL1 and a CFTP GT500 is not that big, about 130 lbs.

The weight of the GT500 is unfortunate, but all reviews have claimed it drives lighter than it is, for what that's worth, similar to how the ZL1 defies physics for a 3,900 lbs car.

Last thought: The Hellcat Redeye is a very heavy car and has the worst weight distribution (57/43 front/rear) of the three, which is why it can't get traction. It's heavy even compared to the heavy base GT500 (358 lbs lighter) and is a whopping 600 lbs heavier than an A10 ZL1.
Regarding how the GT500 shrinks around you and drives lighter than it is, well that is great, however the front tires and gas tank don't care. You go thru both at a very fast rate in track conditions.
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:27 AM   #63
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Regarding how the GT500 shrinks around you and drives lighter than it is, well that is great, however the front tires and gas tank don't care. You go thru both at a very fast rate in track conditions.
Those tires deserve an award for what they allow the GT500 to do.
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:08 AM   #64
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LOL, I talk out of my rear sometimes.

But they have had issues, most notably with the YTers. For what it's worth, there's no telling if they are legit issues, or if the YTers sabotaged their own cars for likes and views, or what. But I personally would say it is probably a good idea to watch them and see what is happening with them. Because I know some disagree with me, but IMO, I think the GT500 was either a rush job by Ford or they had spent too much time/effort/money on rebuilding the GT and with the PP2 and all the warranty and recall issues with the GT350 or some combination of all that and they couldn't focus entirely on the GT500. They delayed it, then delayed it again, and then it got to the point that they just had to go ahead and push it out. Which is evident in the finish/quality issues with it.
C8 and C7 had some quality issues as well with misaligned panels, was that a rush job lol. That kind of thing happens to all of the big 3. Their quality control is suspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
n the Redeye's defense, it is the least multi-faceted vehicle of the bunch and was built that way intentionally. I think FCA built it with an emphasis on comfort and straight line prowess over all else. I highly doubt FCA cared an ounce about cornering/handling. So I give them a pass in this regard. Plus once you start getting into highly modded cars, I don't think any other vehicle can bang heads with the Hellcat family from a price and durability standpoint.
Just poking you in the ribs on this one for old times sake Blaq, but you will give FCA a pass for not caring about handling in the Challenger but dragged Ford through coals because ford didn't care about straightline speed with the GT350 lol


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Those tires deserve an award for what they allow the GT500 to do.
This ^
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:51 AM   #65
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Those tires deserve an award for what they allow the GT500 to do.
The CF wheels are making a huge difference as well. Can't wait to see what they do to the C8Z.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:00 AM   #66
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The CF wheels are making a huge difference as well. Can't wait to see what they do to the C8Z.
Absolutely! I am just very impressed with the grip capabilities of today's tires and never before have those capabilities been better demonstrated(IMO of course).
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Old 01-06-2021, 12:57 PM   #67
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Also, every review I've read by the magazines have talked about how uncomfortable the seats are. Blaq -- you own one -- is it true?
The seats in the ZL1 or in the Hellcat?

I think they both are very comfortable for what the car is expected to do. The ZL1 is a cornering beast so the seats are really tight and hold you in. There isn't much room for moving around and you can feel it wrapping around you. So that being the case and keeping in mind the car's purpose it is ok. Because at any moment you can use the handling and the seat will remind you of what the car is capable of doing.

The HC seat is more roomy but you're just going in a straight line anyway. It feels more plush and forgiving. I find both cars to be very comfortable.
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C8 and C7 had some quality issues as well with misaligned panels, was that a rush job lol. That kind of thing happens to all of the big 3. Their quality control is suspect.
C8 and C7 were not $75K cars for the Base. And not for nothin, but the C8 and C7 had much better quality than the GT500 does.


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Just poking you in the ribs on this one for old times sake Blaq, but you will give FCA a pass for not caring about handling in the Challenger but dragged Ford through coals because ford didn't care about straightline speed with the GT350 lol
Yes. Because the GT350 wasn't even good enough at cornering. The SLE was keeping up with it. And my gripe wasn't that it sucked in a straight line...it was because it sucked terribly. At the price for that car you should not be stuck in the 12s.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
The seats in the ZL1 or in the Hellcat?

I think they both are very comfortable for what the car is expected to do. The ZL1 is a cornering beast so the seats are really tight and hold you in. There isn't much room for moving around and you can feel it wrapping around you. So that being the case and keeping in mind the car's purpose it is ok. Because at any moment you can use the handling and the seat will remind you of what the car is capable of doing.

The HC seat is more roomy but you're just going in a straight line anyway. It feels more plush and forgiving. I find both cars to be very comfortable.
I was referring to the Hellcat seats.

I liked the Recaros in the ZL1.
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:05 PM   #69
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C8 and C7 were not $75K cars for the Base. And not for nothin, but the C8 and C7 had much better quality than the GT500 does.



Yes. Because the GT350 wasn't even good enough at cornering. The SLE was keeping up with it. And my gripe wasn't that it sucked in a straight line...it was because it sucked terribly. At the price for that car you should not be stuck in the 12s.
Just poking you in the ribs for old times sake lol.

Yes they might not have had issues as bad but at that price point there shouldn't be any issues like both had. Misaligned panels, gaps that kind of stuff shouldn't happen anywhere near this price point.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 01-06-2021, 05:43 PM   #70
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I was referring to the Hellcat seats.

I liked the Recaros in the ZL1.
The Recaros in the ZL1 are definitely snug, comfortable, and amazing. The HC seats are more cushiony, soft, and amazing. They're both suited very well for the car they are in and the purposes. If the ZL1 seats were in a HC and vice versa then they would be terrible.
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Just poking you in the ribs for old times sake lol.

Yes they might not have had issues as bad but at that price point there shouldn't be any issues like both had. Misaligned panels, gaps that kind of stuff shouldn't happen anywhere near this price point.
Yea definitely old times. LOL!! I think you and I have had more interactions than any two other people in here in the history of this forum.

I might be a bit harsh on Ford, but I'll admit that GM does have the same issues. It just seems like it is more so with Ford and especially in the more expensive trims. With the Camaro and Corvette, it seems like GM puts more effort into the fit and finish. With the Mustang, the GT500 gets the same treatment as a Base EB. Or so it seems. I would not let it deter me if I were in the market and found one at MSRP. But I think Ford realizes either way that the car is going to sell so it isn't really a concern. The buyer will either fix it themself or bring it in to be corrected so it doesn't matter.
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