[Caerus]

Originally Posted by ZPirate

Is your dealership located in NC or another state? The dealership I purchased my 1LE from was in SC about an hour south of Charlotte. My car was shipped by train to a rail yard near Columbia then trucked to the dealership. It took approximately 8 weeks to get from the plant to the dealership in early 2022. Doesn't sound like shipping has improved since then. Are they waiting on any backordered parts to be installed before shipping it?

Dealership is local in Charlotte. Information status is minimal at best by dealer and GM. Most say waiting on shipping, but one customer service guy said it could be parts. Following others in this situation, it can be as long as four months. I need to be patient, although I just passed on a base ZL1 on a dealer lot that was tempting.

[ZPirate]

Originally Posted by Caerus

Dealership is local in Charlotte. Information status is minimal at best by dealer and GM. Most say waiting on shipping, but one customer service guy said it could be parts. Following others in this situation, it can be as long as four months. I need to be patient, although I just passed on a base ZL1 on a dealer lot that was tempting.

Unfortunately, it sounds like GM is waiting on a part or parts to be installed before the car is shipped. I see your car is a 2SS. With all the constraints it is likely a part that they are waiting for before shipping the car out. I'd love to have a ZL1 too, but I'm not willing to spend the extra on one right now. Good luck. I hope you don't have to wait much longer. The waiting is the hardest part as the song goes.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

as fast as it is... you cannot outrun ugly

reminds me of my first wife. when she was a kid her mom had to tie a pork chop around her neck so the dog would play with her.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m gonna say it must be on the strength of the M3 50th Anniversary Commemorative Edition I got to spend a few hours with today. I have yet to drive a Shelby GT500 or a C8 Z06, but until I do I have to say I have never driven anything with the braking performance of this particular M3. These brakes are freight train quality.

It certainly needs the braking performance to support the raw power of this beast. I did drive it back to back with my own 50th anniversary and there was no contest in terms of power, braking, or even handling. My car is a SS, not a ZL1 or 1LE, but the M3 handling was considerably more focused and capable than my own car. It oughta be for the price.

One of the more interesting features is that the instrument cluster has a setting where you can see the power and torque you’re generating real time. At one stoplight launch I went in about half throttle and the cluster tells me I reached 510 hp, 479 lb-ft getting to 70 before I backed it down. Freaky fast.

Appreciate the review. I’m sure you’re aware, BMW underrates its engines significantly compared to how SAE rates them here in the states. Porsche, too (how else can you explain the 911 turbo s lightweight trapping 139 mph with “only” 640 bhp?). My theory is both companies rate their engines at conditions like 10,000 ft and 95 deg F., whereas SAE rates them at something like 1000 ft and ~80 deg F, or something like that.

The M3 competition x drive that the 50th is based on is closer to a ZL1 level of performance than SS, esp vs. your convertible. ZL1 still beats it in braking, grip, handling, and rolling acceleration, but the margin isn’t by much. Of course being AWD the M3 comp beats the ZL1 0-60 mph. During Motortrend’s PVOTY they said that Johnny L. kept up with Scott Evans on twisty Angeles crest; Evans was driving an AMG GT black series. The author also said it felt there was no way it was under 600 hp (it’s rated at “only” 503 hp).

We see the same thing with the Supra 3.0, in that it has slightly better or at least as good as acceleration of an LT1 Camaro. “Only” 382 hp.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Appreciate the review. I’m sure you’re aware, BMW underrates its engines significantly compared to how SAE rates them here in the states. Porsche, too (how else can you explain the 911 turbo s lightweight trapping 139 mph with “only” 640 bhp?). My theory is both companies rate their engines at conditions like 10,000 ft and 95 deg F., whereas SAE rates them at something like 1000 ft and ~80 deg F, or something like that.

The M3 competition x drive that the 50th is based on is closer to a ZL1 level of performance than SS, esp vs. your convertible. ZL1 still beats it in braking, grip, handling, and rolling acceleration, but the margin isn’t by much. Of course being AWD the M3 comp beats the ZL1 0-60 mph. During Motortrend’s PVOTY they said that Johnny L. kept up with Scott Evans on twisty Angeles crest; Evans was driving an AMG GT black series. The author also said it felt there was no way it was under 600 hp (it’s rated at “only” 503 hp).

We see the same thing with the Supra 3.0, in that it has slightly better or at least as good as acceleration of an LT1 Camaro. “Only” 382 hp.

The 911 Turbo S has temporary "boost" mode, Porsche doesn't tell you how much power it makes in that mode, but to achieve a 10.1s 1/4 mile it's way over 640 hp.

German hp figures are pretty close to SAE at the wheels. Also, I just picked up a BMW M235ix for a dd, and one other factor is the turbo kicks in REALLY quickly, and there is no torque curve, it's flat from 2k rpm up to peak hp, and it redlines at 7k rpm, so the area under the curve is greater vs a NA motor like the LT1. Between these factors the German cars are indeed a lot faster than they should be on paper, my 235 does 0-60 in 4.4s with "only" 324 hp.

After getting the BMW, it is amazing to see how much GM copied from these cars, lol. The Alpha chassis cars, especially the Caddies, are nearly BMW clones.

[Caerus]

Originally Posted by ZPirate

Unfortunately, it sounds like GM is waiting on a part or parts to be installed before the car is shipped. I see your car is a 2SS. With all the constraints it is likely a part that they are waiting for before shipping the car out. I'd love to have a ZL1 too, but I'm not willing to spend the extra on one right now. Good luck. I hope you don't have to wait much longer. The waiting is the hardest part as the song goes.

Thanks for the support. Waiting is problematic, but I wish they would tell specifically why the wait. The extra money for the ZL1 was not the issue, since a new M2 I was going to get was pushing about $68k. I could not over come that I don't need extra power, complexity, extra weight and certainly hate giving the gov't $1,300. The ZL1 certainly is a special car for sure but I will be very happy with the 2SS 1LE.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Appreciate the review. I’m sure you’re aware, BMW underrates its engines significantly compared to how SAE rates them here in the states. Porsche, too (how else can you explain the 911 turbo s lightweight trapping 139 mph with “only” 640 bhp?). My theory is both companies rate their engines at conditions like 10,000 ft and 95 deg F., whereas SAE rates them at something like 1000 ft and ~80 deg F, or something like that.

The M3 competition x drive that the 50th is based on is closer to a ZL1 level of performance than SS, esp vs. your convertible. ZL1 still beats it in braking, grip, handling, and rolling acceleration, but the margin isn’t by much. Of course being AWD the M3 comp beats the ZL1 0-60 mph. During Motortrend’s PVOTY they said that Johnny L. kept up with Scott Evans on twisty Angeles crest; Evans was driving an AMG GT black series. The author also said it felt there was no way it was under 600 hp (it’s rated at “only” 503 hp).

We see the same thing with the Supra 3.0, in that it has slightly better or at least as good as acceleration of an LT1 Camaro. “Only” 382 hp.

The BMW, Porsches and the like generally make rated HP at the wheels. That's the simple of it. There are outliers like The M550 and a few others that were absolutely not even close...but typically, they make the rated HP at the wheels and that's a big advantage. That way they can honestly say it "makes 300hp", but pushing 300hp at the wheels is far different than 300 at the crank. It ends up being a big difference. I wouldn't call them categorically "underrated", but they are pulling some shenanigans here. It allows them to remain "on top" of any mag/review comparison where like-HP cars are compared...because in reality they aren't really "like".

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The BMW, Porsches and the like generally make rated HP at the wheels. That's the simple of it. There are outliers like The M550 and a few others that were absolutely not even close...but typically, they make the rated HP at the wheels and that's a big advantage. That way they can honestly say it "makes 300hp", but pushing 300hp at the wheels is far different than 300 at the crank. It ends up being a big difference. I wouldn't call them categorically "underrated", but they are pulling some shenanigans here. It allows them to remain "on top" of any mag/review comparison where like-HP cars are compared...because in reality they aren't really "like".

True, but a clue to their actual performance is Msrp!

[ZPirate]

Originally Posted by Caerus

Thanks for the support. Waiting is problematic, but I wish they would tell specifically why the wait. The extra money for the ZL1 was not the issue, since a new M2 I was going to get was pushing about $68k. I could not over come that I don't need extra power, complexity, extra weight and certainly hate giving the gov't $1,300. The ZL1 certainly is a special car for sure but I will be very happy with the 2SS 1LE.

You are welcome. I've been there myself, but not with my car sitting for so long. I agree with you about the ZL1, awesome car, but I like the handling of the SS 1LE and the lack of the extra weight and complexity you mentioned. I think you will be very happy with the 1LE. It's an awesome car too and one of the best bangs for the buck you can buy.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by Caerus

Yes they do, but it starts at $91k. Zl1 is a bargain for sure. https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo.../overview.html Also, SS 1LE is a great bargain as well. I was going to get the new BMW M2 which is similar in performance to the SS 1LE. But that build was going to be $68k versus $54k for the Camaro. I missed the V8 6MT of my old 2017 2SS and dropped the M2 for the 2SS 1LE that is in transit.

Also the Camaro SS1LE beats the BMW M2 Comp as well. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...camaro-ss-1le/

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by Casper the friendly G

Gotta spend over $31k more for a BMW to almost match an SS camaro performance. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/c...let-camaro-ss/

That is the reason why I bought my '16 Camaro SS 6MT

[cosmok]

I speak with experience that the current BMW M3/4 is a potent machine and clearly underrated. I also had a 2020 M4 Comp.

[cosmok]

Some more pics.

[Marozl1LE]

alle the way zl1 1le but m3 f80 comp or cs nice too
but the new m3 and m4 ugliest front in the planet for me and im from germany and im bmw M driver guy i have a E36 m3 3,2 s50b32 and E39 m5
but newest models ugly dude


and here in germany zl1 1le very rare


for me all the way zl1 1le price performance