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Old 11-04-2016, 01:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
So, I think I know that in the case of the LS7 for instance, this engine was a bit lighter than say the LSA (SC'd) and then also the LS9, which made for better balance.

I also think I understand that for the road course enthusiast that NA is the preferred induction method, is that really just because of heat soak?

If so, and the Z/28 with an LT4 and all the cooling engineered into it, does not have that issue like the Z06 (and by all accounts so far the ZL1 does not - i guess time will tell), but the Z/28 does get all the other upgrades for being a "track beast", better suspension, aero, tires, weight reductions and balance enhancements...would this be enough in your opinions to be worthy of the Z/28 plate?
I'm sure the increased weight is also an issue. It's higher on the engine and at the front of car. If you decrease the overall weight of the car, that will magnify the extra weight of the engine as well.

As for the rest, I guess that is for Al O and the team to decide. Whatever they build, I'm sure it will be an excellent performer. I would just prefer it to be n/a, even though I will likely never be able to afford one.
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:04 PM   #44
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I'm sure the increased weight is also an issue. It's higher on the engine and at the front of car. If you decrease the overall weight of the car, that will magnify the extra weight of the engine as well.

As for the rest, I guess that is for Al O and the team to decide. Whatever they build, I'm sure it will be an excellent performer. I would just prefer it to be n/a, even though I will likely never be able to afford one.
Well they have certainly done a good job keeping the suspense up!

They may surprise everyone with a new motor, or a tricked out LT1 I suppose.
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Old 11-04-2016, 03:02 PM   #45
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Well they have certainly done a good job keeping the suspense up!

They may surprise everyone with a new motor, or a tricked out LT1 I suppose.
Yeah I'm thinking a hopped up LT1 with around 530hp. Just enough to edge out the GT350.
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:44 PM   #46
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Yes ... if you are concerned about horsepower numbers on paper.

In reality, a regular old SS powered by an LT1 is almost as quick in a straight line as the GT350. An extra 70 or 80 hp would be great ... but its not essential, performance wise.
Based on the fact the ZL1 ring time was only 2.59 quicker and had 124 more horsepower and 221 more lb-ft TQ, I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think they will be able to reduce the weight nor increase the handling "that" much more to negate the need for a decent HP advantage.

What also surprises me is how much faster the GS Vette is than the 1LE on the C&D lightening lap...similar power, only around 300lb difference, but 7 seconds faster. There is definitely a price to be paid for having a back seat.
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:51 PM   #47
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Based on the fact the ZL1 ring time was only 2.59 quicker and had 124 more horsepower and 221 more lb-ft TQ, I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think they will be able to reduce the weight nor increase the handling "that" much more to negate the need for a decent HP advantage.

What also surprises me is how much faster the GS Vette is than the 1LE on the C&D lightening lap...similar power, only around 300lb difference, but 7 seconds faster. There is definitely a price to be paid for having a back seat.
I didnt know the GT350 had a ring time?? Video?
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:55 PM   #48
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The LT376/535 is the Crate Motor Chevy had on display at 2016 SEMA-New Products in the South Hall. This is a Crate Motor you can drop into your old busted chevy to give it new life. They are replacing the LS376 with this motor... Nothing more.

This is separate than the LT5, I asked while I was there.
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Old 11-08-2016, 03:26 PM   #49
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Even if it was the LT5, they weren't going to tell you. There is a reason its called LT376 and not LTx. It's a crate motor and won't go in any car from the factory.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:37 PM   #50
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Based on the fact the ZL1 ring time was only 2.59 quicker and had 124 more horsepower and 221 more lb-ft TQ, I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think they will be able to reduce the weight nor increase the handling "that" much more to negate the need for a decent HP advantage.

What also surprises me is how much faster the GS Vette is than the 1LE on the C&D lightening lap...similar power, only around 300lb difference, but 7 seconds faster. There is definitely a price to be paid for having a back seat.
There is no verified 'ring time for the GT350R. So it is not 'fact' that its 2.59 seconds quicker than the ZL1. Could it be faster? Sure. Could it not be? Sure. But either way, the Nurburgring is a handling circuit first and foremost. Yes, there is that massive back straight but the track rewards handling much more than power/acceleration.

As for improving the handling of the Camaro ... why can't it be better? There is nothing 'special' about the GT350 that gives it any sort of inherent & insurmountable handling advantage over the Camaro. It wights 3700 lbs with a 54/46 weight distribution. Ford gave it big fat sticky tires over light weight wheels, a track tuned suspension, and some aero bits. Nothing in there that GM can't do just as well or better with a Z/28.

And if you think the only difference between a Grand Sport and a 1LE is 300 lbs of weight, you are sorely mistaken.
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Old 11-09-2016, 06:32 PM   #51
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I didnt know the GT350 had a ring time?? Video?
There isn't. The ring time he is referencing was made up by Horsepowerkings, they've done that a few times.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:16 PM   #52
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There is no verified 'ring time for the GT350R. So it is not 'fact' that its 2.59 seconds quicker than the ZL1. Could it be faster? Sure. Could it not be? Sure. But either way, the Nurburgring is a handling circuit first and foremost. Yes, there is that massive back straight but the track rewards handling much more than power/acceleration.

As for improving the handling of the Camaro ... why can't it be better? There is nothing 'special' about the GT350 that gives it any sort of inherent & insurmountable handling advantage over the Camaro. It wights 3700 lbs with a 54/46 weight distribution. Ford gave it big fat sticky tires over light weight wheels, a track tuned suspension, and with some aero bits. Nothing in there that GM can't do just as well or better with a Z/28.

And if you think the only difference between a Grand Sport and a 1LE is 300 lbs of weight, you are sorely mistaken.

My original point was made in reference to saying the camaro wouldn't need a horsepower advantage. I too would hope it wouldn't but based upon the lighting lap times (http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature) and the "unverified" ring time (https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/) (and other comparisons: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/...t350r-mustang/) for Chevy to have a DECIDED victory, IMHO they need to bring some HP to the party. My interpretation from your comment was "the Z will handle the mustang easy"...if i read into that correctly I would respectfully disagree (if I misinterpreted your point I apologize). I think the Z28 if developed will be faster, but the 350R has thoroughly surprised me and makes the mustang no longer a road course joke (like the BOSS). If the "unverified" ring time is even close, IMHO it illustrates my point as the ZL1 with most of the suspension tricks from the previous Z28 and a ton more power, was only marginally faster.

BTW, i never said the handling of the Camaro couldn't be better? I would actually expect it to be better as GM has repeatedly shown the ability to set up a road course car that flies time and time again. My point again, is that it appears, on this 350R at least, that Ford has stepped up and made a very competitive package.

The point i was attempting to make regarding the SS 1LE and the Vette GS is that THERE ARE inherent differences beyond weight and power (obviously) to reflect such a huge difference in lap times at VIR. I understand it, but I don't have to like it. I would expect maybe a 3 second per lap difference, but it just shows how much more of a purpose built package the vette offers in terms of its chassis characteristics (CG, roll center, wheel/tire package etc) and aero. I'll sacrifice the difference for the back seat so my boys can roll with me in their car seats, but I do wish the potential between the 2 platforms wasn't as great.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:27 PM   #53
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There isn't. The ring time he is referencing was made up by Horsepowerkings, they've done that a few times.
O I know
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:15 AM   #54
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The Z/28 is down on power, weighed more and was still faster at VIR. The 6th gen is a thorn in Ford's side, it's no coincidence at all that there hasn't been an SS vs GT350 comparison at a track. I'm confident that even a Z/28 at 500hp like the last gen would come out on top.
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Old 11-10-2016, 06:51 AM   #55
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The Z/28 is down on power, weighed more and was still faster at VIR. The 6th gen is a thorn in Ford's side, it's no coincidence at all that there hasn't been an SS vs GT350 comparison at a track. I'm confident that even a Z/28 at 500hp like the last gen would come out on top.
I agree 100%. The Alpha is a FAR superior chassis to the 350 configuration in any form, and the 1LE nipping at the R's heels proves that.

And extra 45 HP, and likely additional weight loss over the 1LE is enough IMHO to overcome the R.

As said above the 350 is quite a competitor, but Ford is behind an entire generation IMO. They are basically just one upping the 5th Gen Camaro at this point, and that simply isn't enough to be top dog.
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:19 AM   #56
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For me, I would prefer the next Z/28 retain the N/A configuration but get a few more ponies, say up to ~525-ish or a few more.

This should be doable with the LT1 using upgraded intake, heads, cam, tuning, and exhaust and still meet emissions while avoiding (hopefully) the GG Tax. And, if GM can get its track weight down to 3500-3600 lbs, even better.
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