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Old 09-05-2018, 09:36 PM   #43
Supercup
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Originally Posted by ST1LE View Post
I think they nailed it. It is not a seperate model, like the Z28, it is JUST an option package for the ZL1.

It is insanely impressive for what it is, and the market seems to think so too.

To be more clear, I think it is a success because as a buyer you can choose the ZL1 which is everything the R is in performance and even more as a daily driver or you can check an option box, which is much easier and cheaper for the manufacturer, and have a an absolute track monster.

I think you are exactly right on why the Z28 was not so successful though, and that releasing it early in the 6th gen would have made it much more successful than it was in the 5th gen.
I agree with you that the ZL1 1LE is insanely impressive for what it is. But given the 1LE package is targeted at the track guy and has and extreme suspension for the street, it will limit the sales to guys who buy it for the track and occasionally use it on the street. Like the Z/28 a very limited market.

There was already a great street car that can go to the track in the ZL1, so why not take the 1LE option package and in addition to adding aero etc. take away weight, add a more supportive track seat etc. I am sure cost played into it and so they didn't want to make too many changes to keep the price in line.

Either way they are bad to the bone and if they really do only produce 750 cars they will be a keeper long term, if that limited in the end.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:42 AM   #44
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I highly doubt it is the crank design that is leading to the reliability problems... but who knows.
FPC design causes major vibrations and bad harmonics - they are well known for tearing engines apart, which in this case, the largest displacement engine with an FPC - is also the root cause of Voodoo failures.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:44 AM   #45
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Enjoyed the review. The GT350R is hands down the best sounding Mustang - ever - and sounds way better than any stock Camaro - that being said the regular ZL1 would be a tougher head to head competitor for GT350R to compare to. When you factor in the ride quality of the ZL1 1LE, you eliminate most of the market, it is a track car.
I wouldn't say it sounds "way better". It sounds good. Maybe better. But by no means does that mean the Camaro doesn't sound good in comparison. I love the way my ZL1 sounds especially with the aftermarket exhaust I have. I haven't heard anything that I think sounds way better. Nothing at all. When it was stock, I didn't think the Mustangs sounded a world of a difference better either. It's like comparing 2 hott chicks. One might be slightly hotter but they're both still hott and you'd definitely take whichever one you can get.
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I feel GM missed the mark on the ZL1 1LE - they said the Z/28 did not sell well cause it had no creature comforts - nope - it did not sell well because it was a track focused $75K Camaro at the end of the Gen 5 platform, when the Gen 6 was out shortly, which was a better platform.

The track focused car buyer is a extremely small segment of the market. Z/28 proved that was clearly the case. I have Z/28 and and it is a great car for what it is, but it is not an everyday car. I don't need any creature comforts to enjoy my Z/28. I would have preferred the ZL1 1LE come with better track seats, no creature comforts (other than AC) and was as low in weight as possible. Ceramic brakes would have been a nice option, but are not needed.
Again I disagree. The Z28 was completely different from the ZL1 1LE. With the Z28 you had the harsh ride plus NO creature comforts. And it was quite expensive. But if you wanted extreme handling in a Camaro for that time period, that was the go to. If you wanted to cruise and enjoy the ride then you got the ZL1.

The ZL1 1LE is quite different. With it you get all the creature comforts of the standard ZL1 but you also get extreme handling. The problem is that people ignored GM's warnings. ANd it was mainly people who weren't built like that anyway. A bunch of pansy-ass MFers bought the car thinking they could handle the rough ride and found out they were too light for that type of work. Plenty others who bought the car for what it was meant for, the track...or those who bought it and weren't pansies and could handle the rough suspension, they all enjoy the car. Yes it is a small segment of buyers but it is still a segment nonetheless. Ford tried to hit that segment with the GT350 (R) and GM swung back with a haymaker and one upped Ford with the ZL1 and then 3 upped Ford with the ZL1 1LE. I think that was good on GM's part and it shows just how capable the Camaro is. Ford has yet to respond which is evident in the fact that they had to push the release date of the GT500 back.
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:53 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by NW-99SS View Post
FPC design causes major vibrations and bad harmonics - they are well known for tearing engines apart, which in this case, the largest displacement engine with an FPC - is also the root cause of Voodoo failures.
Speaking of the FP350S and your “read-in-between-the-lines” message on the Voodoo’s reliability, step back further and consider this:

Before the FP350S, and the Mustang GT4 at that (which also sports a similar CPC 5.2L), there was the GT350R-C. That car was supposed to replace the Boss 302R/S race cars. It WAS supposed to be available for private teams... but it never was. Ford had two (2) of thoes cars run by Ford Performance/Multimatic in IMSA in 2015. In 2016, Ford Perforamce/Multimatic only ran one and sold the other to Compass 360 (a team close-by to Multimatic in Canada). Compass and FP/Multimatic worked very close in running the cars.

I believe it’s the second order vibrations, in relation to the stroke, that cause the most sever damage with the FPC. All the damping in the power/drivetrain are essential on the GT350 - the dual-mass flywheel, the transmission mount dampers and the exhaust dampers. I will bet the modified TR3160 was also beefed up for the vibrations and not just the torque.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:36 AM   #47
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Here is a good video of these two playing on a track.

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Old 11-01-2018, 07:30 AM   #48
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too many factors at play to draw any conclusions. Expensive hobby, but it sure looks like fun.


...I must be getting old because I find the R exhaust too loud LOL.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:13 AM   #49
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too many factors at play to draw any conclusions. Expensive hobby, but it sure looks like fun.


...I must be getting old because I find the R exhaust too loud LOL.
Agreed. Two different owner's/driver's etc.

I love the R exhaust, but only at the track
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:58 PM   #50
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Here is a good video of these two playing on a track.
The driver in the Zl1 doesn't seem to be really pushing it. And it pulls hard away in the straights. I don't blame him for taking it easy. I would not want to wreck that car. It's amazing how stable it is in the turns, zero body roll.

The GT 350R is doing its best, but it's the slower car. And I might be the only guy on the planet that's not digging the sound of the engine. It sounds like it's about to take a dump.

BTW, the GT350R only caught up because of the car in front of the ZL1.

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Old 11-02-2018, 03:52 AM   #51
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ZL1 1LE vs GT350R...not even worth debating.
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:31 AM   #52
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The driver in the Zl1 doesn't seem to be really pushing it. And it pulls hard away in the straights. I don't blame him for taking it easy. I would not want to wreck that car. It's amazing how stable it is in the turns, zero body roll.

The GT 350R is doing its best, but it's the slower car. And I might be the only guy on the planet that's not digging the sound of the engine. It sounds like it's about to take a dump.

BTW, the GT350R only caught up because of the car in front of the ZL1.
Not really trying and pulls away hard? LOL... what video are you watching? That zLE may be the lesser driver, but he’s doing his best.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:56 AM   #53
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Not really trying and pulls away hard? LOL... what video are you watching? That zLE may be the lesser driver, but he’s doing his best.
7.55 to about 8:15-20, the ZL1 pretty much dusts the GT350 in the straightaway. And in the corners he slows down excessively allowing the GT350 to catch up. The fact that the Zl1's driver is a novice and the GT350 can't pass him isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the GT350R. Save for a tight track, the GT350R is out of its league.
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:58 AM   #54
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7.55 to about 8:15-20, the ZL1 pretty much dusts the GT350 in the straightaway. And in the corners he slows down excessively allowing the GT350 to catch up. The fact that the Zl1's driver is a novice and the GT350 can't pass him isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the GT350R. Save for a tight track, the GT350R is out of its league.
There are no novices on that track gtfo with that nonsense.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:17 AM   #55
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There are no novices on that track gtfo with that nonsense.
It must be another 6th Gen was trying, but not really trying deal.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:42 AM   #56
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I love both of them, no need for a versus in my life. They are both a blast to drive.

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