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Old 09-08-2019, 10:28 AM   #1
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Post ZL1 vert stereo upgrade

Camaro6 amigos:

I could not bond with the Bose stereo in my 2017 ZL1 vert M6. My tone is set to:

* Bass: flat.
* Midrange: +12.
* Treble: -10

I find the sound still indistinct in the vocals/midrange, tinny with cymbals/treble, and weak in the bass guitar/bass, with general inaccuracy all around.

So I'm going deep and committing to an upgrade with Car Audio Express in San Jose, CA.

https://www.caraudioexpresssanjose.com/

I really enjoyed working with Bashir there to design the solution listed below. Install is coming up mid-next week. I'm looking forward to great results.

Some of the goals were:

* Accurate vocals/midrange.
* Smooth cymbals/treble.
* Accurate bass guitar/bass, but not boomy.

* Do the install leaving the car looking "stock". Amps/DSPs will be installed in the sides of the trunk behind the felt side trim panels. We will leave the under floor trunk area stock. The JL sub is a very thin box that can remain in the trunk under the convertible top even when down (only 6 3/4 inches tall) and can be removed when I need full trunk space for loads.

* I selected carbon fiber speakers because they look cool (although I might never see them - go figure!), and the models are slim profiles, that will help in the limited space in the door and rear panels.
* Bashir recommended Morel because the silk tweeters give a very smooth treble, as compared to Hertz (middle), and Focal (bright), for example.

* I listen to podcasts quite often on the commute to work - it might even realistically be 80% podcasts, 20% music. For this reason, Bashir/I agreed to keep the Camaro6 center channel. Bashir recommended the Morel CCWR254 2.5" full range with 300-19,000 hz response as a great option, it sounds really good, and costs very little (we even have to buy a pair and will only use 1 of them), 40 watts RMS capacity (a little low with a 100 watt amp channel, but maybe the center will not be tuned very loudly). It is funny that the Camaro6 has a center channel, but no menu option for "surround sound", like my '12 AMG C63 and '08 BMW M3 had. The Helix DSP.3 has a "RealCenter function which allows a perfectly focused sound staging for both driver and co-driver". What the heck is a co-driver? LOL


OK, so here is the materials list, and I'll attach the XLS quote with pricing info.

QTY. DESCRIPTION
1 NAVTV GM650 (INTEGRATION)
1 HELIX DSP.3 (SYSTEM TUNING)
1 HELIX UCR3 (BASS KNOB)
2 GM SPEAKER BRACKETS
1 MOREL VIRTUS NANO CARBON 602 (FRONT 2 WAY COMPS)
1 MOREL VIRTUS NANO INTEGRA CARBON 602 (REAR COAX)
1 MOREL CCWR254 (CENTER)
1 SOUNDSKINS PRO ROLL (SOUND DEADENING)
1 RF T400X4AD
1 RF T1000X5AD
1 DUAL 2G AMP PWR/GRND/SPEAKERWIRE KIT/DIST BLOCK
1 OPTICAL CABLE

***14 HOURS LABOR/TUNE***


The only item missing is the JL sub, which I will get from Car Audio Express, and I'll add the price below from Crutchfield:

* JL Audio CS110LG-TW3 $419.99
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 17ZL1.pdf (107.1 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Plasar; 09-08-2019 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:32 AM   #2
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Of course, pics help, so here's some pics:
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Last edited by Plasar; 09-08-2019 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:40 AM   #3
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Thumbs up

Oh, and a quick thank you and shout out to "drfeelgood"!

There are many other folks that I owe thanks to in the stereo forum, but drfeelgood has a ZL1 vert too, and his postings were therefore directly relevant to my stereo journey.

I appreciate all the posts buddy.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:25 PM   #4
drfeelgood

 
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My man! Welcome to the club. I am glad you found the posts useful, as I found posts prior to mine useful as well.

As I mentioned, great job on choosing the '17. It would have been hell trying to tune this system in a '19 with the new Ethernet AB bus system.

So it took me a while to get my system where I wanted it. It's funny that you post this because my car is currently at my custom audio shop, getting yet another mild upgrade.

I decided, mainly for aesthetic reasons, I wanted my tweeter and midrange on axis, in the A pillar (Both are designed by hybrid audio to function either on axis or off axis). So I am going with a custom setup adding my 2.5" midrange into the A pillar.

I wanted a little more midbass than my 7.1" Legatia L6SE was providing, so I am changing to Unity 6 x 9" in the doors.

Beyond that, I am happy with the system, top up or down, it sounds great.

I think you will find the most frustrating thing is getting good bass with the top down. With the top up, you will be fine.

Post plenty of pics and congrats again on the find... looks like you got a steal. These verts are super rare!
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'17 White ZL1 A10 Convertible - TM ported TB - RotoFab CAI - 2.3" griptech upper pulley - Kooks 1 7/8" Headers with High Flow Cats - Borla S-type Catback - Audio Overhaul - NavTV M650-GM - 20" BlackDiForza- Michelin Pilot Sport4S - Tuned at Excelsior Motorsports (630rwhp/625trq)

'14 CTS-V Coupe - ZL1 lid - Ported TB - Ported Snout - AirRad CAI - 8.66" lower - 2.55" upper- Greenbelt - SW Headers - SW Catback - Varimax Intercooler Pump - Track Attack Intercooler-Tuned at Excelsior motorsports (605rwhp/615trq)

'17 Maserati Levante- STOCK
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:55 PM   #5
headgamez
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro ZL1
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M650

Great parts and congrats!!! I had to return my M650 due to some really low voltage on the analog side. Will not be an issue I don't believe if you are using the digital or toslink outputs.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:43 PM   #6
OVERPAR73
2018 Garnet Red ZL1 conve
 
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Sure will follow this as I'm interested in the final system and how everything looks, post lots of pics and a video would be really nice!
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:37 PM   #7
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Talking

Thx headgamez, and welcome aboard OVERPAR73, I will post pics for sure and maybe video.

Hey OVERPAR73, is your sweet vert Garnet Red Tintcoat? OMG, that looks great! I wish I knew you before I picked my car up in NJ. I visited the Facebook Data Center in Altoona, IA on my way back. We could have had a beer together in Des Moines.


Last edited by Plasar; 09-08-2019 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:29 AM   #8
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Question

* Car dropped off this morning at Car Audio Express in San Jose.

https://www.caraudioexpresssanjose.com/

* Equipment ordered still arriving, may take 3 days instead of 2 days.

* Interesting item: I asked Bashir to take out the Bose amp from the trunk and put it with the Bose speakers he is removing so I could just sell the whole lot on eBay. However, Bashir noted in the installation manual for the GM interface box: "NOTE: the OEM amplifier must stay connected in the vehicle to maintain complete OE functionality at this time." Anyone know why this might be so?

* FYI, teaser pic sent of door soundproofing in progress.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:10 AM   #9
tecboy
 
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The manual is correct about not being able to remove the bose amp...i am not 100% sure but i believe it may have to do with the Most50 connection. there is a most50 input and output on the amp so i would imagine gm set up Most50 in a ring topology. It also looks like one of the plugs has the High Speed GMLAN serial data. When installer did my system he moved the bose amp behind the left panel and the fusebox behind the right panel to the left of the battery. that gave him the entire recessed well to install components
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #10
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Thx tecboy, very helpful.

I'm trying to keep my visible trunk area and recessed well stock, so I hope we can leave the Bose amp where it is, and install the aftermarket stuff in the left and right wheel wells. I have a vert, so the top takes up space left/center/right in the trunk already. I am hoping the Class D amps are small enough. And the sub will be a removable JL 10" box.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:08 PM   #11
drfeelgood

 
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I know it's hard to read every thread, kudos to the OP for even reading some of them prior to the install. Yes we all realized a while back that even when adding aftermarket amplifiers, you MUST leave the factory amp installed. A number of things are spidered through the amp.

For my build, We simply cut and taped off the wires leaving the amp, and sent signals from the new amps to the existing factory wires going to the OEM speaker locations as opposed to running new wires. In our cars, with the short distances traveled to the speakers, you really don’t gain much running new 16Ga speaker wires to your new speakers. Also, if you run them too close to a power signal, you can run into interference resulting in that annoying engine whine when you listen to music.
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'17 White ZL1 A10 Convertible - TM ported TB - RotoFab CAI - 2.3" griptech upper pulley - Kooks 1 7/8" Headers with High Flow Cats - Borla S-type Catback - Audio Overhaul - NavTV M650-GM - 20" BlackDiForza- Michelin Pilot Sport4S - Tuned at Excelsior Motorsports (630rwhp/625trq)

'14 CTS-V Coupe - ZL1 lid - Ported TB - Ported Snout - AirRad CAI - 8.66" lower - 2.55" upper- Greenbelt - SW Headers - SW Catback - Varimax Intercooler Pump - Track Attack Intercooler-Tuned at Excelsior motorsports (605rwhp/615trq)

'17 Maserati Levante- STOCK
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:20 PM   #12
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
* Awesome drfeelgood, thanks for the feedback. I think all factory wiring will either a) remain in place, or b) be utilized. In either case, a future owner can "return it to stock".

* My career has been in IT for 32 years now, and sometimes, you just do things (leave the Bose amp connected) even though you don't fully understand why you need to do this (like tecboy says, maybe the head unit expects to see the Bose amp on the MOST bus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOST_Bus ).

* Part of me wants to stay at the Car Audio Express (CAE) shop and watch the install, and ask Bashir 1,000 questions about how and why he is doing each step, but I know that would be so annoying, and he's got my complete trust with all of his experience that he knows how to do this.

* However, I just want CAE to get that Bose system replaced ASAP with some quality components - every minute of listening to the Bose is like an icepick in the brain.

* I did get an update today though - the Morel speakers are delayed by UPS - so the 2-day install will likely be a 4-day install now. While I'm not happy to hear this, I can work from home, and I have ZipCar here in San Jose, so it's no big deal. I'm just looking forward to GOOD SOUND at the end of this.

* BTW, I also gave Bashir/CAE a Podcast and Song list for auditioning the system and some comments about each song and how I might like them to sound, along with an iPod Mini with the songs on it, a set of Grado SR80 headphones (pretty neutral), an 1/8" cable to connect the iPod Mini to the Camaro. See attached PDF. Hopefully, they will understand roughly how I want it to sound.

* For me, the voice is most important to get right. I think everyone can tell if the sound of a human voice is "accurate" or not - and I think many producers/bands want the voice to sound like a voice as recorded in the studio. Then when it comes to cymbals/treble or bass guitar/kick drum/bass, everyone's opinion may differ. Maybe classical music is great demo music, because everyone knows what an acoustic violin should sound like. But I regret say, although I love all types of music - classical, jazz, rock, rap, punk, hawaiian, Indian, etc. - you'll see my demo lists is well worn rock stuff only, how boring and limited! =X-D
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File Type: pdf Demo Songs for 2017 White Camaro ZL1 Convertible.pdf (62.9 KB, 5 views)
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:16 PM   #13
drfeelgood

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasar View Post
* Awesome drfeelgood, thanks for the feedback. I think all factory wiring will either a) remain in place, or b) be utilized. In either case, a future owner can "return it to stock".

* My career has been in IT for 32 years now, and sometimes, you just do things (leave the Bose amp connected) even though you don't fully understand why you need to do this (like tecboy says, maybe the head unit expects to see the Bose amp on the MOST bus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOST_Bus ).

* Part of me wants to stay at the Car Audio Express (CAE) shop and watch the install, and ask Bashir 1,000 questions about how and why he is doing each step, but I know that would be so annoying, and he's got my complete trust with all of his experience that he knows how to do this.

* However, I just want CAE to get that Bose system replaced ASAP with some quality components - every minute of listening to the Bose is like an icepick in the brain.

* I did get an update today though - the Morel speakers are delayed by UPS - so the 2-day install will likely be a 4-day install now. While I'm not happy to hear this, I can work from home, and I have ZipCar here in San Jose, so it's no big deal. I'm just looking forward to GOOD SOUND at the end of this.

* BTW, I also gave Bashir/CAE a Podcast and Song list for auditioning the system and some comments about each song and how I might like them to sound, along with an iPod Mini with the songs on it, a set of Grado SR80 headphones (pretty neutral), an 1/8" cable to connect the iPod Mini to the Camaro. See attached PDF. Hopefully, they will understand roughly how I want it to sound.

* For me, the voice is most important to get right. I think everyone can tell if the sound of a human voice is "accurate" or not - and I think many producers/bands want the voice to sound like a voice as recorded in the studio. Then when it comes to cymbals/treble or bass guitar/kick drum/bass, everyone's opinion may differ. Maybe classical music is great demo music, because everyone knows what an acoustic violin should sound like. But I regret say, although I love all types of music - classical, jazz, rock, rap, punk, hawaiian, Indian, etc. - you'll see my demo lists is well worn rock stuff only, how boring and limited! =X-D
Just a little speaker-porn

A pillar upgrade is officially completed
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'17 White ZL1 A10 Convertible - TM ported TB - RotoFab CAI - 2.3" griptech upper pulley - Kooks 1 7/8" Headers with High Flow Cats - Borla S-type Catback - Audio Overhaul - NavTV M650-GM - 20" BlackDiForza- Michelin Pilot Sport4S - Tuned at Excelsior Motorsports (630rwhp/625trq)

'14 CTS-V Coupe - ZL1 lid - Ported TB - Ported Snout - AirRad CAI - 8.66" lower - 2.55" upper- Greenbelt - SW Headers - SW Catback - Varimax Intercooler Pump - Track Attack Intercooler-Tuned at Excelsior motorsports (605rwhp/615trq)

'17 Maserati Levante- STOCK
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:47 PM   #14
Plasar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Vert M6
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 28
Thumbs up

@drfeelgood, OMG, you really went the extra 1,000 miles with your stereo upgrade and your carbon fiber trim customization. Let me just try to call out what I see as the EPICNESS of your work:

* Custom tweeter/midrange pods have stitched leather/leatherette.
* You did a 1/2 carbon fiber - 1/2 alcantara passenger side dash trim.
* You continued this to the left of the nav screen and to the right of the gauge cluster.
* You did a carbon fiber piece where the window up/down buttons are.
* You did a carbon fiber piece around the door pull handles.
* You did a carbon fiber nav screen surround.
* You did a carbon fiber steering wheel where even the circle around the "Camaro" center hub is carbon fiber.
* You did carbon fiber pieces surrounding the steering wheel controls for heat/cruise/center stack function buttons.

Man, you are an artist!


One question: what is that doohickey clipped to the driver's vent - is this a dilithium crystal for the warp drive?

One more question: why did you (and maybe my install too, it's not done yet) retain the "Bose" logo on your front 6x9 grills - are we trying to look stock? Why should we be advertising for this company? Are they removable?

Last edited by Plasar; 09-14-2019 at 04:21 AM.
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