2012 l99 stock vs 2009 challenger srt8

[JorgeSS]

When I had first gotten L99
I was disappointed with it
after a CAI and tune
man was I impressed
it needs a tune to wake up
of not its like a snail

[Deki]

Originally Posted by JorgeSS

When I had first gotten L99
I was disappointed with it
after a CAI and tune
man was I impressed
it needs a tune to wake up
of not its like a snail

I test drove an L99 before I bought my Mustang and I loved it. It's a strange world we live in when someone is disappointed in a 400hp car lol

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

Thats not the point I was trying to make. Mustangs run in the 12s with a stock auto. SRT8s are in the 12s with a stock auto. Neither brand has a horse power difference between their manual or auto. Only GM has a manual thats rated 25hp higher than their automatic! So were stuck with lower horse power than the manual model Camaro why?

who cares? HP is a high rpm rating, if you are talking sustained high speeds like the Taxes Mile I can see where it would make a difference.

but in a 1/4 mile track Torque is your key power factor, HP doesn't mean a whole hell of anything in a 1/4 mile drag race, and both the L99 and LS3 have the same Torque rating.

It takes torque to get an object to move from inert to a certain speed, but horsepower to keep it at speed. The faster you want to go from 0-60 the more torque you need; and the higher the MPH you want, the more HP you need.

so unless you plan on winding the Camaro up to it's top speed and maintaining that, Horse Power numbers and claims are pointless and nothing more than a marketing gimmick for the uninformed.

yeah great my Camaro has major horse power and can go 180mph + but wait, it's governed @ 155 because of various regulations and laws developed by idiots that think they are saving people from themselves.

In everyday driving of a street car, even those used occasionally for some 1/4 miles passes, Torque is the only power number than has any real meaning..

and with that in mind, the GT500 pushes 631ft/lbs and the 392 SRT8 pushes 490ft/lbs to the Camaro LS3 or L99's 420ft/lbs.. so weight not withstanding, both the Mustang and the Challenger have more torque than the Camaro, hence why they are in the 12's from the factory.. The Challenger has a larger displacement which by design gives it more torque, and the GT500 is boosted.. if you are talking just a basic GT Mustang, those are 390ft/lbs, however they are also 250 pounds lighter..

and I haven't even touched on the differences in the gearing. .


Horse Power numbers are pointless, and you shouldn't get hung up on them, it isn't the difference in the HP number than makes the vehicle faster or slower than the Camaro, it's Torque, Weight, and gearing.

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

Horsepower doesn't matter????????

that is NOT what I said..

learn to COMPREHEND what you read.

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

Your exact words were "horsepower is a marketing gimmick for the uninformed".

no that is not what I said, you took and apparently only understood 1/2 of the sentence.


what I said was

unless you plan on winding the Camaro up to it's top speed and maintaining that, Horse Power numbers and claims are pointless and nothing more than a marketing gimmick for the uninformed.

Horse Power Numbers and Claims on street cars are nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

It makes ZERO difference if a daily driven street car has 100hp or 1000hp because that number does not come into play anywhere in the 25mph - 65mph speed limits your daily driven commuter car is used at.

Horsepower only has a meaning if the vehicle gets up to it's TOP speed and MAINTAINS that speed.

TORQUE is the key to how fast a car can get it's ass up to speed, and it is all that that need be considered along with weight and gearing, when talking about drag racing a 1/4 mile at a time or driving on a highway.

Doesn't matter if your car has 1000hp and a top speed of 180mph unless you have the TORQUE to get that car up to it's top speed within that 1/4 mile you will never see that 1000hp come into play. And you will NEVER see that 1000hp driving on a public highway @ 65mph, however the more TORQUE a car has will help it get up to the speed of the flow of traffic faster when entering that highway.


so your fixation of the 25 hp difference in the L99 and LS3 is moot, because it has nothing to do with how fast the car can launch and how fast the car can go in a 1/4 mile, it is TORQUE, WEIGHT, and GEARING that determine that. Horse Power is a HIGH RPM rating for getting to and maintaining the top speed of the motor, as I have said several times

not only that, a car's horse power rating is measured in BRAKE HORSE POWER (bhp) which is the measure of an engine's horsepower before the loss in power caused by the gearbox, alternator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components such as power steering pump, muffled exhaust system, etc blah blah blah..

your 400 hp L99 puts about what 335-340 actual HP @ the wheels.

so once again the number is meaningless. it is nothing more than hype to get you to buy the car and brag that you have XXX horsepower, to the uninformed that is "impressive"; to the informed they could care less, anyone serious about motors and racing knows it is the Torque, Weight and Gearing that make a difference..

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

I see you just finished up chapter two of your epic fantasy novel. Soooo why do the L99s pick up so much performance (1/4-1/2 second E/T in a quarter mile) from a tune again? You keep babbling about torque and you say horsepower is meaningless? Oh and thanks for explaining the brake horse power thing. I imagine all the uniformed members on this forum never really understood the difference between brake and wheel HP.I'll ask you one more time! Is the tune magically increasing torque in an L99 by 50%, cutting 250 pounds of weight from the car or providing better gearing?????? Or is it simply correcting weak shifts and reducing the torque management? I'm all in for chapter 3.

you started this conversation bitching about the 25 less HP in an L99, the complaint is moot and pointless. an extra 25 hp will not put the car into the 12s.

Mustangs and Challengers have more Torque, and different gearing to the Camaro.


again your complaint about the 25 less HP is irrelevant to the equation.



torque management is designed to REDUCE TORQUE during WOT upshift to have softer more controlled shifting.. removing the management and addressing the shift pressures results in more power getting to the wheels, that power is call TORQUE that is why you pick up 1/4 - 1/2 a sec ET in a quarter mile.. has nothing to do with horsepower.

basically you just made my point for me.. but I don't think you are smart enough to understand that..
.

[07-SRT]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

8.75 in the 8th works out to a 13.65 in the 1/4. That might beat a poorly driven SRT8 from that erea. The SRT should be a low 13 second car on average. The L99 is more of a mid 13 second car on average. I wasn't impressed with it stock at all.

You can't always go but those conversion calculators.... When I was stock, I had some 13.3 1/4 mile times that were 8.7 in the 1/8th... and my 12.7= 8.2
Not to get off the subject, but a friend of mine just bought a 2014 L99 SS and he can't spin the tires from a dead stop.( in all seriousness). He is running 93 octane. I remember reading something about a low octane problem... Is there a fuse I should tell him to pull to reset it?

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by 07-SRT

You can't always go but those conversion calculators.... When I was stock, I had some 13.3 1/4 mile times that were 8.7 in the 1/8th... and my 12.7= 8.2
Not to get off the subject, but a friend of mine just bought a 2014 L99 SS and he can't spin the tires from a dead stop.( in all seriousness). He is running 93 octane. I remember reading something about a low octane problem... Is there a fuse I should tell him to pull to reset it?

the fuse pull might help but it's not like the Chrysler fuse pull that resets the adaptive's, it's 2 fuses and they have to be pulled and left out for 8 hours..

do a search there are a few threads on it.


Also he needs to take off the ESP And Traction control.

he has to press and HOLD the button for 6-10 seconds to reduce the TQ MGT, simply pressing it twice will not do it, and it also has some type of computer governor to prevent power braking if the system is not disengaged.

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

Torque management is the equivelant to nuetering the car in my book. That was my original complaint before you wrote every useless fact about torque you could find on wiki trying to sound informed. My complaint is still the same. You get a car with about 40 wheel hp less than the ls3. Combine that with a transmission not tuned to make full use of the power available translates to a much slower automatic Camaro vs its manual brother. Ford and Dodges automatics don't run 1/2 a second slower than their manuals. So all your rambling about Torque goes right out the window right there. Do you get the point I was making or am i going to have to get a box of crayons and draw you a picture. And lastly thanks once more for teaching me that horsepower is a completely useless way to measure automotive power. The entire auto industry as well as all tuners have been getting it wrong for the last century according to you. It must be a hell of a burden being the only guy that truely gets it. Do you even drag race your convertible?

no I don't drag my convertible, I dragged my last 5 cars, and worked in the industry for 25 odd years.

but again you show your lack of understanding. I am not talking about the whole industry, I am talking about the simple fact that an HP rating has zero bearing on a street car.. complaining about the loss of 25 hp on the auto vs the manual is pointless. It makes no difference.


I completely agree that TQ mgt is neutering the car, however the percentage of people that buy these cars for anything other than a daily driver is very low, and the majority of those people can't handle the power WITH the TQ MGT, can you imagine the accidents and injuries and death that would ensue from the average person driving a 400hp car without some type of nanny? There are plenty of youtube videos to watch of what happens with inexperienced drivers get in a high powered car and fark it up.


as for your comment about the others not having differences in their 1/4 mile times auto vs. manual..

AllPar reports the manual SRT Challenger in the high 12s low 13s and the auto in the mid 12s. That tells me there is a 1/4 - 1/2 second difference. Chrysler also nannies their cars with TQ management, I worked for mopar for 20 odd years.. the LX line is very much under tuned just like the Camaros,, and to a certain degree the Corvette.

As far as the Mustang is concerned I don't believe you can get a GT500 model in an automatic. so the point is moot.

If you are talking about a regular GT, depends on who you talk to and what reviews you read, I see similar differences with them between the autos and manuals.

Why GM under rates the HP on the L99 vs. LS3 is anyones guess, by I suspect it has a lot to do with the damn AFM system, another useless and pointless restriction on the vehicle designed only to maintain CARB and EPA regulations..

[08-G35s/6MT]

hp as advertised is a gimmick... I am rated 310 hp but with an intake and tune ran 12.7's @ 109-110 mph

[SRT8Tech]

Here we go again......I love SRT8 vs Camaro threads.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by 08-G35s/6MT

hp as advertised is a gimmick... I am rated 310 hp but with an intake and tune ran 12.7's @ 109-110 mph

You car was also made before SAE standards were in place and was underrated. I don't know what your point is talking about your advertised power and what you ran modified, other then the fact you want to join the conversation and tell people about your amazing Fbody

[08-G35s/6MT]

Originally Posted by Deki

You car was also made before SAE standards were in place and was underrated. I don't know what your point is talking about your advertised power and what you ran modified, other then the fact you want to join the conversation and tell people about your amazing Fbody

I bought it as a toy, heads/cam/stall coming soon. for the price Ford is no competition, you have to look at 20k-30k cobra's and 5.0s that even match the performance in a straight line. It's superior to all cars on the market currently IMO, in that it can accomplish 11's while total of less then $10k spent on buying the car itself and modifying it..... N/A.

Cobra's aren't nice inside neither are the Camaros, both are equally luxurious... no reason to spend more other than that it's a Ford. 5.0's are just overpriced for the performance when you look at the cobras and ls1 f bodies.

[62nalide]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

[B]Horsepower doesn't matter in drag racing???????? Did you really just type that? You just threw a bunch of random nonsense into a paragraph.[/B]who cares? HP is a high rpm rating, if you are talking sustained high speeds like the Taxes Mile I can see where it would make a difference. If you've ever dragged raced you'd know you spend a hell of a lot more time in the upper RPM range (Above 3500RPM) Then below. Horsepower matters a lot!
It takes torque to get an object to move from inert to a certain speed, but horsepower to keep it at speed. The faster you want to go from 0-60 the more torque you need; and the higher the MPH you want, the more HP you need. ok where on the time slip does it give a 0-60 time? Secondly if you've ever drag raced before. The idea is to get down the track as fast as possible with the highest mile per hour achievable! Is torque getting you down the track quickly or horse power? Answer both! Not just torque. Moving on. so unless you plan on winding the Camaro up to it's top speed and maintaining that, Horse Power numbers and claims are pointless and nothing more than a marketing gimmick for the uninformed.So your saying everyone that is adding horsepower to their vehicle is uninformed??? Uninformed is just another way of calling someone stupid right? If you actually understood how important horsepower is to drag racing. You wouldn't have thrown that statement out there. It make's you sound uninformed.
Torque is nice getting you off the line then horsepower becomes extremely important in a drag race! None of that nonsense you typed explains why a L99 will pick up almost half a second with a tune. The tune I added to my L99 didn't give me 100 more foot pounds of torque. It didn't magically cut 250 pounds of weight off of my car and it didn't improve my gear ratio!!! It gave me a better operating transmission. Quit trying to sound like Bill Nye. I'm not talking about a GT500. I'm talking about a GT! And we are talking about drag racing not the Texas mile.

It really doesn't, you can have a car making 440rwhp and if it can't hook or bad driver, same car making 390hp can and will out run it.